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  1. #13

    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    This is all you need to know.

    "Barely two weeks after Donald Trump took office, Eric Ciaramella – the CIA analyst whose name was recently linked in a tweet by the president and mentioned by lawmakers as the anonymous “whistleblower” who touched off Trump’s impeachment – was overheard in the White House discussing with another staffer how to remove the newly elected president from office, according to former colleagues."

    This was when all the various coups were being plotted by the treasonous weasel hanger ons from the previous administration. i.e. Russian Collusion etc.. The idea was just come up with any excuse to to investigate then throw any and all sh** at the wall and hope Trump makes a mistake. Then it's on to the BS "obstruction" etc.. So many BS process crimes is basically what they came up with. Oh, and let's indict a bunch of people in Russia just to make it all seem legit.

    Case dismissed.





  2. #14
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    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Who would have investigated Biden and Burisma? When that was happening, Biden was VP. Why would Schiff, Nadler, or anyone from the Democratic Party investigate Biden?
    The potential conflict with Biden working for Burisma was reported on at the time, including the White House's concern about it.

    What was there to investigate?

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  3. #15
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    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    Quote Originally Posted by blah3 View Post
    Hmm, let’s compare shall we. We have the transcript of trumps call which clearly shows nothing and we have a video of Biden clearly admitting to threatening to withhold fund agreed to if they didn’t replace a Ukrainian official.
    The partial non-transcript (it even says it's not a transcript) shows Trump pushing for unfounded investigations. Zelensky spells out what he understood the quid pro quo to be at the time on page 5.

    Volcker texted Zelensky's aid 30 minutes before the call took place spelling out the White-House-meeting-for-investigations deal, too.



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  4. #16

    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    The partial non-transcript (it even says it's not a transcript) shows Trump pushing for unfounded investigations. Zelensky spells out what he understood the quid pro quo to be at the time on page 5.

    Volcker texted Zelensky's aid 30 minutes before the call took place spelling out the White-House-meeting-for-investigations deal, too.



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    Just nonsense. Everything in the transcript is well within Presidential power. And a text saying hey to the bottom of what happened in 2016 is in no way criminal.





  5. #17

    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    The partial non-transcript (it even says it's not a transcript) shows Trump pushing for unfounded investigations.
    unfounded investigation?

    He asked Zelensky to look into 2016 election interference. If that was unfounded, then what the hell are you talking about? Also, looking into matters of corruption that involve US/Ukraine is legally permissable per the agreement put into law by WJC in the 90's. So, it's well within ANY President's authority to bring up matters of corruption on a phone call with Ukraine's President. If Biden wasn't running for President, would it be ok then? Is it only because he's running for President that you think this was nefarious? I'd be curious to hear your answer on this one.

    Ukraine is listed as one of the most corrupt countries on the planet and we've been been blindly giving them hundred of billions of taxpayer dollars for a long time and they were suposedly "losing" it while American politician's families were getting kickbacks. Sounds like this is certainly worth bringing up during a conversation.



    everybody that signed off on the transcript says its what every presidential transcript looks like
    +
    everybody that was on the call says that the transcript was correct
    +
    everybody that was actually on the call says there was no quid pro quo
    =
    Stop listening to the assholes on TV. They are lying to you.


    PS
    Democrat Senators Menendez, Durbin, and Leahy wrote a letter to Ukraine’s prosecutor in 2018 general stating that US assistance to Ukraine was at stake if they didn't help investigate Trump.

    Did you know that?
    Last edited by ravenmaniac4life; 01-23-2020 at 04:37 PM.





  6. #18

    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    So far, I haven't heard any Congressional Republicans or members of Trump's legal team deny any of the allegations. Are they going to stipulate that Trump did what the Democrats are alleging he did, but then argue that it doesn't rise to the level of Impeachment?
    This is sarcasm? Right? Trump has a transcript of the call. There is zero evidence of any of the claims. He has denied it 100
    Times.

    To this point, I haven’t seen one Democrat’s show any evidence of this happening





  7. #19
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    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmaniac4life View Post
    unfounded investigation?

    He asked Zelensky to look into 2016 election interference. If that was unfounded, then what the hell are you talking about?

    He asked for investigations into the Bidens, which had what to do with the 2016 election? That investigation is unfounded. To date there's still no allegation of wrongdoing by Hunter Biden, and the only allegation against Joe Biden was known to be false when it was first made.

    The only other investigation Trump asked for was into Crowdstrike and Crowdstrike hiding "the server" in Ukraine. This is an insane and stupid conspiracy theory. "The server" Trump babbles about is the supposed DNC server that was hacked by the Russians. This lunatic conspiracy theory has it that Ukraine did the hacking and that Crowdstrike is owned by a Ukrainian and is covering up for Ukraine. This nutjob claim either originated with Giuliani and Firtash or it's just Russian propaganda (Putin has put it forward personally). Crowdstrike is an American company and there was no one "the server" for the DNC's systems. More than just Crowdstike identified Russia as the hacker, moreover. Dutch intel literally watched Russia in real time (they'd hacked Russia).

    So, yes. The investigations Trump wanted announced were and are baseless.

    To pound that point home, what he and his fan base are trying to believe needed investigation would also be violations if U.S. law. If Biden corruptly abused his position to help his son he would be subject to indictment. If Crowdstrike covered up a Ukrainain hack of the DNC they would have obstructed justice. Yet there was and is no U.S. investigation of these things despite Trump's appointees directing every law enforcement and intelligence agency we have. The DOJ wasn't any part of Trump's efforts to get Ukraine to investigate.



    everybody that signed off on the transcript says its what every presidential transcript looks like
    +
    everybody that was on the call says that the transcript was correct
    +
    everybody that was actually on the call says there was no quid pro quo
    =
    Stop listening to the assholes on TV. They are lying to you.
    Everything you wrote there is false. The transcript isn't a transcript. It even says it's not a transcript. It's also incomplete: Trump still hasn't released the entire summary of his call. Vinmand, Morrison, and Pence's aide all testified to having concerns about the call at the time. Each was in on the call. Vinmand testified to inaccuracies in the summary he tried to have corrected but was refused.

    Zelensky spells out the quid pro quo on page 5 of the "transcript."

    I came to my views by listening and reading the testimony and looking at the original sources, something you obviously haven't done.

    PS
    Democrat Senators Menendez, Durbin, and Leahy wrote a letter to Ukraine’s prosecutor in 2018 general stating that US assistance to Ukraine was at stake if they didn't help investigate Trump.

    Did you know that?
    I know that's false. That letter involved Ukrainian investigations into Manafort, and they urged Ukraine not to drop them as a way of making Trump happy. There was no mention of U.S. assistance in the letter. Here's the letter:
    https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/m...estigation.pdf

    It looks like you're the one who needs to quit listening to the assholes on TV.



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  8. #20

    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    He asked for investigations into the Bidens, which had what to do with the 2016 election? That investigation is unfounded. To date there's still no allegation of wrongdoing by Hunter Biden, and the only allegation against Joe Biden was known to be false when it was first made.

    The only other investigation Trump asked for was into Crowdstrike and Crowdstrike hiding "the server" in Ukraine. This is an insane and stupid conspiracy theory. "The server" Trump babbles about is the supposed DNC server that was hacked by the Russians. This lunatic conspiracy theory has it that Ukraine did the hacking and that Crowdstrike is owned by a Ukrainian and is covering up for Ukraine. This nutjob claim either originated with Giuliani and Firtash or it's just Russian propaganda (Putin has put it forward personally). Crowdstrike is an American company and there was no one "the server" for the DNC's systems. More than just Crowdstike identified Russia as the hacker, moreover. Dutch intel literally watched Russia in real time (they'd hacked Russia).

    So, yes. The investigations Trump wanted announced were and are baseless.

    To pound that point home, what he and his fan base are trying to believe needed investigation would also be violations if U.S. law. If Biden corruptly abused his position to help his son he would be subject to indictment. If Crowdstrike covered up a Ukrainain hack of the DNC they would have obstructed justice. Yet there was and is no U.S. investigation of these things despite Trump's appointees directing every law enforcement and intelligence agency we have. The DOJ wasn't any part of Trump's efforts to get Ukraine to investigate.





    Everything you wrote there is false. The transcript isn't a transcript. It even says it's not a transcript. It's also incomplete: Trump still hasn't released the entire summary of his call. Vinmand, Morrison, and Pence's aide all testified to having concerns about the call at the time. Each was in on the call. Vinmand testified to inaccuracies in the summary he tried to have corrected but was refused.

    Zelensky spells out the quid pro quo on page 5 of the "transcript."

    I came to my views by listening and reading the testimony and looking at the original sources, something you obviously haven't done.



    I know that's false. That letter involved Ukrainian investigations into Manafort, and they urged Ukraine not to drop them as a way of making Trump happy. There was no mention of U.S. assistance in the letter. Here's the letter:
    https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/m...estigation.pdf

    It looks like you're the one who needs to quit listening to the assholes on TV.



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    To summarize. Ignore what you see and know, and believe what I speculate
    Last edited by Vlad the lad; 01-23-2020 at 07:27 PM.





  9. #21
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    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad the lad View Post
    This is sarcasm? Right? Trump has a transcript of the call. There is zero evidence of any of the claims. He has denied it 100
    Times.

    To this point, I haven’t seen one Democrat’s show any evidence of this happening
    He's confessed and denied it. The "transcript" confirms the claims. The Volker text to Yermak 30 minutes before the July 25th phone call also states the quid pro quo of a White House meeting for investigations that Zelensky lays out on page 5 of the "transcript."



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  10. #22
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    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad the lad View Post
    To summarize. If are what you see and know, and believe what I speculate
    Would you rewrite that in a way that makes sense?

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  11. #23
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    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    Quote Originally Posted by blah3 View Post
    Just nonsense. Everything in the transcript is well within Presidential power. And a text saying hey to the bottom of what happened in 2016 is in no way criminal.
    As he made it a quid pro quo and there's no basis for the request it certainly is. 18 USC 601.

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  12. #24

    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    I think Republicans made a huge mistake not speaking more the last two days. Democrats are getting their narrative out there with not much in the way of a rebuttal.

    It's much harder to change someones mind then get them to form an opinion. I thought things would be different in the senate but it seems pelosi is running the senate too





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