Wtf snap counts from titans game

[organizedchaos21]

Simple, I watched the game. They ran the ball NINE times with somebody not named Lamar. They called 70 pass plays. They totally abandoned what got them to 14-2. Gus got all of three carries after having a 5.2 ypc for the season and a 19 yard run in this game. What the hell is that? It was a pathetic case of panic and choking by Roman and, apparently, Harbaugh agreed with the approach.

I politely suggest that you may have missed some things when watching the game. The run was not abandoned until 28-6. 38 snaps after that point is how you get to 70 dropbacks.

Looking at carries by players other than Lamar ignores the fact that a major facet of the running game this season was the read option, on which Lamar chooses whether to keep the ball or hand it off. That's how he ended up with 12 carries on designed runs, including 10 when the game was still in doubt (plus 8 scrambles for 20 total).

Should Gus have played more? It's easy to say that after the fact, but I think Ingram's injury was overblown, as he played roughly the same number of snaps he normally played this season (slightly below). Connecting to the above paragraph, Ingram was on the field for 13 designed runs (meaning Lamar kept it on 7), Edwards for 7 (Lamar kept on 4).

[StalkRavenMad]

Drive	q	time	Ravens	Titans	dropback	run	DB Cumulative	Run Cumulative
1	1	11:42	0	0	3	4	3	4
2	1	03:31	0	7	2	4	5	8
3	2	14:39	0	14	3	0	8	8
4	2	11:13	0	14	6	5	14	13
5	2	02:32	3	14	13	0	27	13
6	3	14:55	6	14	8	5	35	18
7	3	06:54	6	21	1	0	36	18
8	3	04:16	6	28	7	1	43	19
9	4	14:49	6	28	8	2	51	21
10	4	06:25	12	28	10	0	61	21
11	4	02:45	12	28	9	0	70	21
Total					70	21

13 dropbacks on drive 5 (2 minute drill) throws the balance very far out of wack. 35 dropbacks (vs. 3 runs) to end the game make it way, way worse.

(92 snaps total, but I've excluded a Q4 spike. Feel free to count that as a dropback if you wish )

Those 13 consecutive drop backs were during the 2 minute drill were they attempted to get a TD there where they had an opportunity to get another score after halftime.

[veritas]

I politely suggest that you may have missed some things when watching the game. The run was not abandoned until 28-6. 38 snaps after that point is how you get to 70 dropbacks.

Looking at carries by players other than Lamar ignores the fact that a major facet of the running game this season was the read option, on which Lamar chooses whether to keep the ball or hand it off. That's how he ended up with 12 carries on designed runs, including 10 when the game was still in doubt (plus 8 scrambles for 20 total).

Should Gus have played more? It's easy to say that after the fact, but I think Ingram's injury was overblown, as he played roughly the same number of snaps he normally played this season (slightly below). Connecting to the above paragraph, Ingram was on the field for 13 designed runs (meaning Lamar kept it on 7), Edwards for 7 (Lamar kept on 4).

Snaps are not carries. Ingram was obviously not up to speed as his 6 carries shows. The misuse of Gus was criminal. If Lamar had the feeling that he had to do it all himself, somebody should have disabused him of that notion, yet they simply played into it. Lamar wasn't going to win that game alone yet that is what was asked.

[usmccharles]

I politely suggest that you may have missed some things when watching the game. The run was not abandoned until 28-6. 38 snaps after that point is how you get to 70 dropbacks.

Looking at carries by players other than Lamar ignores the fact that a major facet of the running game this season was the read option, on which Lamar chooses whether to keep the ball or hand it off. That's how he ended up with 12 carries on designed runs, including 10 when the game was still in doubt (plus 8 scrambles for 20 total).

Should Gus have played more? It's easy to say that after the fact, but I think Ingram's injury was overblown, as he played roughly the same number of snaps he normally played this season (slightly below). Connecting to the above paragraph, Ingram was on the field for 13 designed runs (meaning Lamar kept it on 7), Edwards for 7 (Lamar kept on 4).

So are you saying that the reason the carries for RBs were so low is that Lamar just decided to keep it himself mostly? Lamar had the highest number of rushes all season in a loss where the RBs saw 9 carries. I just cant make sense of it.

[organizedchaos21]

So are you saying that the reason the carries for RBs were so low is that Lamar just decided to keep it himself mostly? Lamar had the highest number of rushes all season in a loss where the RBs saw 9 carries. I just cant make sense of it.

I won't say the reason. I think there's rarely a single explanation. Playcalling was tilted slightly toward passing even after accounting for the 2 minute drill and end of game. The argument that they abandoned the run game too early is ridiculous; the argument that they could have run more deserves further inspection.

Specific to Lamar, let's look at his carries. He had 20 total, including 8 scrambles and the 4th down QB sneak. That leaves 11 carries we can look at. Michael Crawford's (@abukari) charting tells me that only 2 of those weren't read plays (the other 4th down failure, and a carry in Q4). That leaves 9 carries that were read plays which Lamar elected to keep. He gained 35 yards on those plays.

I've seen it speculated that the Titans wanted Lamar to keep it on those reads, and the results make me think (1) that's true, and (2) it was the right call. In fact, assuming I'm reading the concepts correctly, MC doesn't have Lamar handing off on a single option play, and the results speak for themselves.

It's never fun to have to play the "what if" game, especially for a team with SB aspirations, but the above, combined with the fact that even the RBs only gained 42 yards, including one early run for 19, makes me think that Roman's response to pass more may have been the right move. The Titans seemed to have the answer to the run game. Passing to set up the run may have been the appropriate response, and if not for a few blunders, may have worked. The Titans defense also deserves tons of credit. They played a solid game and made the big splash plays (3 takeaways plus 2 stops on 4th down).

[usmccharles]

I won't say the reason. I think there's rarely a single explanation. Playcalling was tilted slightly toward passing even after accounting for the 2 minute drill and end of game. The argument that they abandoned the run game too early is ridiculous; the argument that they could have run more deserves further inspection.

Specific to Lamar, let's look at his carries. He had 20 total, including 8 scrambles and the 4th down QB sneak. That leaves 11 carries we can look at. Michael Crawford's (@abukari) charting tells me that only 2 of those weren't read plays (the other 4th down failure, and a carry in Q4). That leaves 9 carries that were read plays which Lamar elected to keep. He gained 35 yards on those plays.

I've seen it speculated that the Titans wanted Lamar to keep it on those reads, and the results make me think (1) that's true, and (2) it was the right call. In fact, assuming I'm reading the concepts correctly, MC doesn't have Lamar handing off on a single option play, and the results speak for themselves.

It's never fun to have to play the "what if" game, especially for a team with SB aspirations, but the above, combined with the fact that even the RBs only gained 42 yards, including one early run for 19, makes me think that Roman's response to pass more may have been the right move. The Titans seemed to have the answer to the run game. Passing to set up the run may have been the appropriate response, and if not for a few blunders, may have worked. The Titans defense also deserves tons of credit. They played a solid game and made the big splash plays (3 takeaways plus 2 stops on 4th down).

It was a perfect shit storm so to speak.

Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk

[John Reglarperson]

Do you have Marquise Brown's snap count?

Here's the box score with snap counts for everybody

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...2001110rav.htm

[Mmcclend]

Abandoning the run really changed who our HC and OC trusted to win the most important game of the year
Hill 50
Gus 18 3 rushes
Ingram 28 6 rushes
Ricard 7 even with Boyle hurt
Boykin 68
Roberts 24

I know this shit doesn’t say that justice Hill had more snaps than Gus and Ingram combined. There’s no way.

[organizedchaos21]

I know this shit doesn’t say that justice Hill had more snaps than Gus and Ingram combined. There’s no way.

Hill was on the field for 10 of the 13 snaps during the two minute drill, as well as 30 of the final 38 snaps (after the Titans took a 28-6 lead).

The 41 other snaps break down as: Ingram (19), Edwards (14), Hill (7), no RB (1). Hill getting more snaps was an adjustment to the situation, not part of the game plan.

Drive	Plays	Hill	Ingram	Edwards	Ricard
1	7	0	4	3	2
2	6	1	4	1	2
3	3	2	1	0	0
4	11	3	4	3	1
5	13	10	0	3	0
6	13	1	5	7	2
7	1	0	1	0	0
8	8	7	2	0	0
9	10	5	5	1	0
10	10	8	2	0	0
11	10	10	0	0	0
Total	92	47	28	18	7

[The Excellector]

That’s how the game played out. Once it was out of reach, Hill’s snaps ratcheted up.

The biggest issue is Edwards vs Ingram, because being there, Ingram was not himself and Tennessee knew it.

Edwards had a big gain on his first carry and they closed shop afterward. I think it still would have been tough sledding, but Ingram should not have had more snaps than Edwards.

I think the Ravens throwing a lot of first down early on made it look bad. It just seemed like that was the one thing that didn’t suddenly start once the game was out of reach.

[Brtnder81]

Justice Hill got 50 snaps because he was more of a pass option out of the backfield.

Gus should have had 20 plus carries but once they got down 21-12 late in the 3rd qtr they totally abandoned the run.

Ingram clearly wasn't 100% and was being used more as a decoy.

Again due to being down, Boyle wasnt an option and I think he sustained some type of injury during the game.

I read somewhere that after breaking down film if you take in account that the team got down early and the fact the Ravens ran RPO with Lamar keeping it, the play calling was not that bad. When they broke it down by qtr it was basically a 50/50 split run pass until the game was 21-12 and the Ravens went more pass heavy. You also have to take into account the Ravens ran 91 plays and were down for majority of the game. A lot of people are saying that the Ravens were a different team than what got them there. I think this was a different game than what anybody was accustomed to seeing. Again to me the single biggest issue were the early TOs. If they dont turn it over and force Tennesse to have to drive the length of the field I doubt Tennessee would have been able to put up enough points. Three of the 4 scoring drives were 35, 45, and 20 yards and the 4th took a 66 yard run from Henry to put them inside the 10. I have to give it to Tennessee, the took advantage of the field position and capitalized on it, Which put the Ravens in a position they have never been in before.

They did not have a designed run on 1st down for the final 39 minutes of the game, and only ran 7 times on 1st down the entire game!

[Brtnder81]

I won't say the reason. I think there's rarely a single explanation. Playcalling was tilted slightly toward passing even after accounting for the 2 minute drill and end of game. The argument that they abandoned the run game too early is ridiculous; the argument that they could have run more deserves further inspection.

Specific to Lamar, let's look at his carries. He had 20 total, including 8 scrambles and the 4th down QB sneak. That leaves 11 carries we can look at. Michael Crawford's (@abukari) charting tells me that only 2 of those weren't read plays (the other 4th down failure, and a carry in Q4). That leaves 9 carries that were read plays which Lamar elected to keep. He gained 35 yards on those plays.

I've seen it speculated that the Titans wanted Lamar to keep it on those reads, and the results make me think (1) that's true, and (2) it was the right call. In fact, assuming I'm reading the concepts correctly, MC doesn't have Lamar handing off on a single option play, and the results speak for themselves.

It's never fun to have to play the "what if" game, especially for a team with SB aspirations, but the above, combined with the fact that even the RBs only gained 42 yards, including one early run for 19, makes me think that Roman's response to pass more may have been the right move. The Titans seemed to have the answer to the run game. Passing to set up the run may have been the appropriate response, and if not for a few blunders, may have worked. The Titans defense also deserves tons of credit. They played a solid game and made the big splash plays (3 takeaways plus 2 stops on 4th down).

Our offense is set up by the run, that means 1st down should be a run at least 2/3 of the time when the score is manageable, running on 1st down usually gets us into 2nd and 3-6, that then opens everything up where the defense doesnt know what to expect, we could run or pass. If you are passing every 1st down and either take a sack or incompletion you are now 2nd and 10+ which tells the defense you have to pass. The run also wears down the defense and gives our defense a rest. This formula is what got us to 14-2 and we completely went away from that in this game!