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Thread: Trump

  1. #265
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by blah3 View Post
    Thatís just another way of the govt telling people what they should have and how much is enough.
    What? No, it is prebating the tax paid on the basic cost of living items, then taxing everything so that only those cost of living items are excluded.

    Now if you mean what the government determines items that are needed for living, yeah, I guess, but it is 0.00001% as convoluted as the current scheme and taxes consumption instead of production, investment, and savings (which our current system punishes - ABSOLUTE STUPIDITY!).





  2. #266
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Laxdad24 View Post
    And I donít 100% disagree here. But I look at what I know.
    My dad is a 30yr member of Plumbers Union. He gets a pension of $2200 a month. Plus his Annuity payments ? AND he gets SOcial Security. Retired my dad makes more than working people I know. Same with my Father in law. Heís retired UAW. Heís a $5000 a month retired guy too.

    Iím a little short of that. Iíll have 25 yrs in the local but my pension number is higher.

    My kids wonít have this option. There is now way they put enough in a 401K to have $5K + retired at 65.


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    Not at all true. My working man cousin had a pretty standard job in a chemical plant and socked away almost $1 million in his 401K before he retired early. If he drew money out to last him to 100 years old along with his SS he does WAY better than $5K/month.

    And all the while he has a paid-for really nice home and has had nice vacations during his working life.

    A 401K matched by an employer in decent mutual funds will do better than a pension or WAY BETTER than SS money.





  3. #267
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by DitkasSausage View Post
    new england shipbuilding company was founded prior to our government being established. It had stockholders, a board, and worked similar to how a Hospital works where it contracted out the services of smaller contractors and bid for jobs. There was zero laws around that, and yet there it was... a corporation. You can go back even earlier to the Portuguese Trading Companies which also had stockholders and a board of directors... that was in the 1400's I believe.

    So... corporations and their structures existed WELL before the US government. What you are saying is akin to saying Fishing exists because of the Government because you need to get a fishing license. They always existed... government just wanted their piece, and got it by regulating it.
    Prior to the us the corporations literally had charters from their country's monarch stating what they could do and what market they had. Tough to argue they would've existed without government involvement.

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  4. #268
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    Why do I seem "passionate" on it?

    1. I worked at Sparrow's Point, so eventually it cost me a job.

    2. Corporations are creations of the government, so the government certainly has the right to regulate them. I don't think the government should tell companies how much they can pay people, however. I'm even opposed to the minimum wage. Even so, executive salaries are out-of-whack with history and the rest of the world. Reforms need to happen. I'd like to see Say On Pay made mandatory. It's currently just an "advisory" thing. Say On Pay is when stockholders vote on what corporate executives make.

    3) No, it wouldn't, since the company would soon quit offering those services.
    2. The legal entity of a corporation is the invention of the government and is just ANOTHER FORM OF REGULATION. If the salaries of executives at ABC corp are out of whack do not buy a share (or buy shares and vote for lower executive pay) and do not buy their products. We do not need the government regulating this.





  5. #269
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    Corporations are created by law. They're artificial persons capable of doing many things natural persons are able to do: own property, enter contracts, take on liability, sue and be sued, etc. They exist only because the government has said they do.
    No, they exist because a group of people brought together capital (i.e. capitalism) and this is a corporation. In their desire to regulate shit government then glommed on to this money formation by making corporations be recognized by the government for the purpose of taxing and regulating them. People have formed business arrangements for millennia. And the succubus that is government suckles at any teet it can to give away free stuff to accumulate power into the hands of people who have done nothing to earn it.

    See AOC BLATANTLY telling billionaires she wants THEIR POWER.





  6. #270

    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    Corporations are created by law. They're artificial persons capable of doing many things natural persons are able to do: own property, enter contracts, take on liability, sue and be sued, etc. They exist only because the government has said they do.
    That's not what you said. You stated that corporations were the creations of the government. Not even remotely so.





  7. #271
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by blueridgemtnman View Post
    That's not what you said. You stated that corporations were the creations of the government. Not even remotely so.
    I can see where he's coming from, but you also have to remember that pre capitalism it all belonged to the king so you had to get permission from the government to operate.

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  8. #272

    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Ortizer View Post
    I can see where he's coming from, but you also have to remember that pre capitalism it all belonged to the king so you had to get permission from the government to operate.

    Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk
    Eh, feudal lords.
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, ďHi Iím Ben may I have a drink please?Ē
    ProFootballMock





  9. #273

    Re: Trump

    Without corporations, you would have very little innovation. First, as a corporation you can give a share of the company to investors in order to raise the capital you need. Second, as a corporate founder, you receive protection from risk.

    If you had an idea for a brand new product and could only fund it's development through loans, would you do it? Where would you be able to borrow enough, and what kind of crippling interest rate would it cost? Would you be willing to take that risk as an individual knowing that if anything goes wrong and someone is hurt by your product (or even in the production or delivery of the product) the aggrieved party could take all of your company, as well as your home, car, savings, retirement, etc?





  10. #274
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    Re: Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by BPF2 View Post
    Without corporations, you would have very little innovation. First, as a corporation you can give a share of the company to investors in order to raise the capital you need. Second, as a corporate founder, you receive protection from risk.

    If you had an idea for a brand new product and could only fund it's development through loans, would you do it? Where would you be able to borrow enough, and what kind of crippling interest rate would it cost? Would you be willing to take that risk as an individual knowing that if anything goes wrong and someone is hurt by your product (or even in the production or delivery of the product) the aggrieved party could take all of your company, as well as your home, car, savings, retirement, etc?
    That was what made joint-stock companies so innovative.

    Also let's you use shares to attract talent you might not be able to afford otherwise.

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