Page 4 of 12 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 37 to 48 of 136
  1. #37

    Re: Schefter: Dorsey out as Browns GM

    Quote Originally Posted by NOLARavenFAN View Post
    Analytics guy according the the Athletic article

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
    Apparently, DePo and Dorsey had a power struggle. Dorsey lost the power struggle.





  2. #38

    Re: Schefter: Dorsey out as Browns GM

    Quote Originally Posted by John Reglarperson View Post
    Apparently, DePo and Dorsey had a power struggle. Dorsey lost the power struggle.
    It's all a smoke screen cause Haslem is calling the shots.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
    Way Down South in New Orleans





  3. #39

    Re: Schefter: Dorsey out as Browns GM

    Quote Originally Posted by 52N19 View Post
    Dorsey assembled a ton of talent. he should be considered for exec of the year with the talent he assembled. its the coaching that crapped the bed. i got to believe this guy will be in demand based on the successful talent evaluation he has done.
    NOPE.

    Exactly how many talented Right Guards and Right Tackles and Tight Ends that were as big as Tight Ends who weren't college basketball players or college wide receivers, and could block is OBJ (who costs $17 Million a year) worth?

    If you think that OBJ counts as 5, then there's a "ton" of talent.

    I don't. OBJ is smallish, really expensive, and he had to trade a first round pick and Peppers to get him.

    If the Browns signed OBJ for $17 Million a year, that would be one thing. But they didn't. They had to trade for him. They gave players up, and they're paying a ton.

    Do the Ravens need to spend huge amounts of money on wide receivers in order to win almost always? No. Maybe it's just bad football thinking to think that really expensive receivers = wins. When OBJ was with the Giants, did the Giants ususally have a winning record or a losing record? The answer? Losing.

    Just because NFL media gets all excited about star WRs and QBs who have a lot of passing yards, what actually works? Well, look at the Ravens. I'd say 14-2 = works. The Super Bowl hasn't happened yet, and if the Super Bowl doesn't happen, someone could argue that what the Ravens are doing doesn't work, but, really, it does work. The Ravens aren't built around smallish WRs who cost a lot.

    A little kid who knows something about football might be able to determine that OBJ is good, and that you need to pay a lot to get good players. Little kids know who the Stars are. And Dorsey, too, knows who the Stars are. Hooray for Dorsey, he knows who the stars are. I don't think that all little kids that know that OBJ is a star should be GMs.

    Dorsey was given a lot of resources, a whole lot of resources, 1/1 1/4 2/1 and 2/4 picks in 2018. Even if they didn't have the extra picks, the 1/1 and 2/1 comes close to the top. The Browns intentionally depleted the roster in order to get a great talent picker so many resources to create a window for success. Garrett came in the year before Dorsey. No credit to Dorsey for him.





  4. #40

    Re: Schefter: Dorsey out as Browns GM

    Quote Originally Posted by NOLARavenFAN View Post
    It's all a smoke screen cause Haslem is calling the shots.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
    Yes and No. Do you really think it's Haslam who is the one who is churning the bottom of the roster?

    It's probably true that Jimmy and Dee have more of a hand in than the average owner, but I think that it's the coach that's coaching and the GM that's GMming, and it's the owner that's owning. He's not Al Davis and he's not Jerry Jones. Jimmy and Dee are not that involved. They're involved enough to fire coaches and GMs when they're not happy, but they're not the ones doing the jobs. They may or may not be involved when big decisions are made like OBJ. We don't really know the specifics.





  5. #41

    Re: Schefter: Dorsey out as Browns GM

    Baker wanted Freddie Kitchens. Dorsey convinced the owner to hire Freddie. Jimmy Haslam wanted the Vikings offensive coordinator. Freddie was unprepared and lost the locker room. Veteran players also didn't like how he talked down on them during practice.





  6. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    7,549

    Re: Schefter: Dorsey out as Browns GM

    Quote Originally Posted by charmcityraven View Post
    Veteran players also didn't like how he talked down on them during practice.
    I didnít hear about this one. Whatís that about? I know Njoku didnít like him but thatís about it. Well, obviously OBJ and probably his partner Landry didnít go out of their way to endorse him.





  7. #43

    Re: Schefter: Dorsey out as Browns GM

    Quote Originally Posted by Iamjacks View Post
    See we agree on a lot more than you think.
    It has been said frequently that the list of coaches acceptable to Dorsey only included yes men and puppets. Freddie fell under the category of puppet. Gregg did not. There were many who thought that the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" model should've been used with the coaches. Keep Gregg and keep Freddie. As HC, Freddie was in over his head. Gregg wouldn't have been.

    Freddie only knew coaches from the Arizona Cardinals. So, backup QB, former Cardinals QB Stanton. QB coach, former Cardinals QB Lindley. Freddie was inadequate for the position of HC at that time. He would've been fine as OC for another year. Monken as new OC was a huge mistake. His experience in the NFL was Jameis Winston with the Bucs. Baker is not Jameis, but Monken was able to bring Baker's interceptions up to Jameis levels. 2018 was a great success, great being relative, it was an improvement over the worst ever, which the Browns, objectively, were from 16-17. Hue, you were the worse coach ever. C'mon back. Gregg, you had a winning record as a coach for the first time in decades. Go away. That's been the Browns way. It's hard, at least somewhat, to compare players on different teams. Players on the same team should be a little bit easier to compare, and for years now, the Browns choose worse over better.





  8. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    7,549

    Re: Schefter: Dorsey out as Browns GM

    Quote Originally Posted by John Reglarperson View Post
    It has been said frequently that the list of coaches acceptable to Dorsey only included yes men and puppets. Freddie fell under the category of puppet. Gregg did not. There were many who thought that the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" model should've been used with the coaches. Keep Gregg and keep Freddie. As HC, Freddie was in over his head. Gregg wouldn't have been.

    Freddie only knew coaches from the Arizona Cardinals. So, backup QB, former Cardinals QB Stanton. QB coach, former Cardinals QB Lindley. Freddie was inadequate for the position of HC at that time. He would've been fine as OC for another year. Monken as new OC was a huge mistake. His experience in the NFL was Jameis Winston with the Bucs. Baker is not Jameis, but Monken was able to bring Baker's interceptions up to Jameis levels. 2018 was a great success, great being relative, it was an improvement over the worst ever, which the Browns, objectively, were from 16-17. Hue, you were the worse coach ever. C'mon back. Gregg, you had a winning record as a coach for the first time in decades. Go away. That's been the Browns way. It's hard, at least somewhat, to compare players on different teams. Players on the same team should be a little bit easier to compare, and for years now, the Browns choose worse over better.
    It seems as if youíre overly touting Gregg Williams to help illustrate your point about Freddieís incompetence though. Gregg Williams stint as a HC in Buffalo (2001-2003) yielded a 17-31 record. 3-13 the first season, improved to 8-8 the following season, 6-10 the third season, then fired. 17-31 is a very Browns-ish looking record for anything, but letís get real about how good of a hire Gregg Williams would have been.





  9. #45

    Re: Schefter: Dorsey out as Browns GM

    Quote Originally Posted by John Reglarperson View Post
    Yes and No. Do you really think it's Haslam who is the one who is churning the bottom of the roster?

    It's probably true that Jimmy and Dee have more of a hand in than the average owner, but I think that it's the coach that's coaching and the GM that's GMming, and it's the owner that's owning. He's not Al Davis and he's not Jerry Jones. Jimmy and Dee are not that involved. They're involved enough to fire coaches and GMs when they're not happy, but they're not the ones doing the jobs. They may or may not be involved when big decisions are made like OBJ. We don't really know the specifics.
    The only consistent that the Browns have had in 5 years is the owner. Until it's proven otherwise he's suspect....

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
    Way Down South in New Orleans





  10. #46

    Re: Schefter: Dorsey out as Browns GM

    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Raven View Post
    It isn’t about “molding his character”, Mayfield isn’t a baby he’s a professional athlete. His parents should have molded his character. Maybe they did and he’s just that much of a tool. The Browns need someone who is going to put Mayfield in his place. He’s not a rookie phenom this time he’s a declining player heading into year three. They need a coach to tell Baker to shut the hell up, be coachable, grow up, or he can hit the bricks.
    Baker isn't a tall prototype pocket passer. One year with the Sooners he ran 141 times. He rolls out. The Browns, when Freddie was OC, had Freddie trying to do things that were similar to Oklahoma, and they won the games they should've won if they were a mediocre team and lost the games a mediocre team would lose. They played more bad teams than good when Freddie was OC. That worked well enough.

    They brought in Monken as OC and the Browns installed a vertical offense, with Baker throwing downfield a lot. The Bucs offense. Not at all a good fit for Baker. Baker should've been rolling out more, picking up short gains, dump off to Chubb, dump off to Hunt. Big RG, Big RT. Actual, real TEs who played football in college, not basketball. It's good to have 1 big red zone threat who was a basketball player. Sure. I like that. But you also need a big back who can block and a big end who can block. The Ravens have tons of them. The idea that you need to have a young QB (or any QB really) making a choice between 5 receiving options within 2-3 seconds before being sacked - that's hard. Maybe you have blockers who can block for Chubb and Hunt and you do that a lot. You can call Chubb a Fullback and Hunt a Halfback, and you can run plays from decades and decades of the NFL. The Ravens don't throw much, they've got the ultimate run first offense with running QBs and they're winning almost always. They've got TEs and a 300 pound FB. The Browns have a small handful of stars, that little kids could identify, and they have mostly useless JAGs everywhere else. Not anti JAG, just anti Useless JAGs. 3/4s of the offense was to OBJ Landry Chubb and Hunt. Hunt was out half the season, so that number would've been higher if he was there. The Browns could've had Useful JAGs out there to compliment what the 4 stars were doing. But they didn't. And that's largely Dorsey's fault.

    How many 200 pound wrs do you need? The Browns had 7. I guess they needed backups to OBJ and Landry (who almost never left the field) and then backups to those backups, and then 1 more backup.

    Dorsey then understood that short 200 pound WRs weren't good in Red Zone situations, and then, instead of TEs that could block, he got bigger WR/basketball types, and called them TEs. This was Dorsey's fault. Etc etc etc. If what you're trying to do is convince the most basic football fans that you have a talented roster, and that fan has a brain that can contain 5 names, yes, there are 5 stars on offense. But it requires more than that. That said, the Browns really didn't do all that bad. They'll do better next year because the NFC East is easier than the NFC West. This was a tougher year, schedule wise for the AFC North than 18 was and 20 will be. So, the Browns should do better than 0 wins against the NFC division next year. Unless it's another dumpster fire rebuild. Browns fans don't care much if there is historically bad sucking if it's explained to them beforehand. If the coach promises to jump in Lake Erie, and does it, they won't be mad if he comes back after 1-31. In Cleveland, it appears the fans prefer historically bad to mediocre, especially if the mediocre comes with high expectations driven by Big Stars.





  11. #47

    Re: Schefter: Dorsey out as Browns GM

    Quote Originally Posted by NOLARavenFAN View Post
    The only consistent that the Browns have had in 5 years is the owner. Until it's proven otherwise he's suspect....

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
    Suspect? No doubt.

    But he's not the one actually making the day to day mistakes. Someone had a post here recently, last 2 weeks, about the worst fans in the NFL. Might want to explore that. Browns fans are just as mad when the Browns lose to a good team as when they lose to a bad team. Browns fans, a sizeable number, wanted the Browns to lose the last 3 games of the year, so that a stronger case could be made to fire Freddie. It was suggested that if the Browns were able to win 3 of the last 4, they'd have a .500 record, and that not being losers was something that the Browns should try to achieve. That argument did not win the day. I guess being losers is just as good as being average to Browns fans. Being bad is an argument that Browns fans tend to embrace. They also believe that, because they've been losers so long, ignoring the fact that they're actually rooting for losses (the Football Gods play some role here), they somehow deserve huge windfalls of wins. The Browns have really been just as bad before Haslam than after. The Browns haven't ever been to the Super Bowl. I should mention that I've noticed that Ravens fans do seem to have the type of attitudes that don't piss off the Football Gods. Hard to list all of that, but things like "have to work hard every game, despite the Ravens being better, because every given Sunday is a thing" and things like that. Generally placing a high value on winning and doing things that are intended to maximize winning. Browns fans wanted to lose to the Bengals because they thought (wrongly) that a Bengals win would keep them from Burrow. Never mind the fact that who knows if Burrow is going to be good, Burrow being good or not doesn't make the Browns better or worse, if Burrow is good, you just have to beat the Bengals with Burrow. I think that Ravens fans know that, and Browns fans don't. There's also a deeper principle there which I can't exactly describe.





  12. #48

    Re: Schefter: Dorsey out as Browns GM

    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Raven View Post
    It seems as if you’re overly touting Gregg Williams to help illustrate your point about Freddie’s incompetence though. Gregg Williams stint as a HC in Buffalo (2001-2003) yielded a 17-31 record. 3-13 the first season, improved to 8-8 the following season, 6-10 the third season, then fired. 17-31 is a very Browns-ish looking record for anything, but let’s get real about how good of a hire Gregg Williams would have been.

    I don't want to overly tout Gregg Williams.

    I do want to emphasize the value of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" principle. I don't think that Gregg Williams would've been in over his head. He had done it before. If they had just continued to do what they were doing at the end of the season, they wouldn't have brought in Monken and Lindley and the other coaches brought in by Freddie, who was in over his head. That's not pro Gregg stuff, that's a statement that the clearly identified bad things that did happen because Freddie wouldn't have happened.

    I would've stayed the course with Freddie and Dorsey, I would've gotten rid of Monken immediately, and Lindley, and all the offensive coaches except Freddie who were tied to the Arians cult of the tall statue QB, and found a OC and coaches who could do something similar to Oklahoma. Stay the course is something you do with a new HC over one year. I don't like stay the course when it's 6 years in Oakland with Derek Carr and 5 losing seasons. Stay the course is good sometimes, not good other times.





Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Link To Mobile Site