Cleveland Forum Discussing Lamar Jackson

[lobachevsky]

The only major sports team whose name is a literary reference, yeah?

I believe so. So far as I know.

Some years back I went to NYC to meet a young British poet friend there on honeymoon with his new bride. I brought them Ravens baseball caps & over supper explained the unique literary reference. They were amused.

(ETA: And now I see QtR Nevermore in #37 supra has disabused us of the uniqueness. Le sigh. As they say in the Japanese restaurant, O tempura! O morays!)

[BustOfPallas]

Browns....not a really creative or attractive name. As they say..."it is, what it is"....I guess.

I actually bought a Baltimore Browns winter hat after they announced the move which would probably be worth some money now. I think my Dad or one of my kids used it and I never saw it again. I think it was a knock off for sure. I would gladly have rooted for the Baltimore Browns. The name actually sounds good if you ask me. Things worked out fine for both cities. From 18 to 29 I had no team to root for. I followed the Browns and the Chiefs a little.

[GOTA]

I had posted this earlier. I think the consensus is that the Joe Lewis version is debunked. A WashPo reporter wrote it in 1995 when the Browns moved to Baltimore, without attribution. Louis has no Cleveland ties, he just happened to be at his peak when the 1945 fan vote was held. Panthers beat out Browns, but a defunct AFL team owner claimed rights to the name and they had to talk Coach Brown into accepting the Browns nickname. The HOF officially says he is the source of the name, but there is no real proof for either version of the story.

Interesting. Thanks for the information.

I always thought there is another option which is simply the same as the Cincinnati Reds. It could be just the color they decided to wear. That's where the White Sox and Red Sox comes from as well. In fact the Red were named after the red stockings that they wore which would make them the original Red Sox. It could be the Browns had brown uniforms

[GOTA]

I didn't read the comments from Browns fans. As a Browns fan, I'm going to comment here, though. Initially, LJ's success was considered a "fluke". It has become a pattern, and must now be accepted as his normal game. This is a "perfect storm" situation with the absolute best coaching staff to bring out the best in a phenomenal player. Of course there are Browns fans, hoping he get's figured out or injured. You guys did the same thing with Mayfield last year. It's disturbing to me that a lot of you read comments from some idiotic Browns fan, and that becomes the "typical" response from all Browns fans in your minds. All fan bases have their share of morons...including this one. Of course, I want to see LJ play like crap in our stadium....but I don't want him injured. Do you really think I paid $900.00 for tickets to that game to watch that guy run for 3 TD's and throw for 5 against us?

The problem is that if you read Browns message boards most of the posters are the idiotic Browns fans. We're not in Cleveland and the Browns don't have a large out of town fanbase so those message boards become the platform that the fanbase is going to be judged.

Even in the past on Ravens boards you are the only non-troll Browns fan that I've seen posting. I've seen many non troll Steelers fans and we have 1 Bengals fan here but you're the only Browns fan who has come to any Ravens board that I've been on and wanted to just talk football. Honestly I think you're the fluke.

[Shas]

And his name was Joe Louis (not "Lewis"). My understanding at the time was that the name the NFL had in mind for the proposed Baltimore expansion franchise (that Tagliamotherfuckingbue made sure we'd never get) was the Bombers, alluding to plane models made before, during & after WW2 at the Glenn L. Martin plant in Middle River. (They could just as easily have been the Seaplanes - Martin was well known for its flying boats, culminating in the beautiful P6M Seamaster, a jet-powered strategic-bomber seaplane that "almost" entered service.)

The name selection process is described here on the team website. After trying unsuccessfully to obtain "Colts" from the Irsays, the Modells opened the process up to fan input, and Poe's Poetic Crow was the runaway choice.

Trivia: A Martin flying-boat also lent its name to Baltimore's Mars Super Markets chain (1943-2016); the plane in question was the Martin JRM Mars, one of the largest seaplanes ever built in the US. Although the name was not related to the Red Planet, the astronomical body did inspire its iconic logo.)

Thanks for the Louis correction. I referred to tight end Ed Dickson as Ed Dixon for an entire season before getting it right.

Recall that there were two rounds of Ravens nicknames, one during the '95 expansion and one when the Browns arrived.

The results of the Sun poll were: 21,108 for Ravens, 5,597 for Americans and 5,583 selected Marauders. Marauders was also derived from the Martin aircraft plant in Baltimore, it was the nickname of the B-26 that they produced there. That's the plane you see with the glass bubbles protruding from the nose and fuselage where gunman sat (and were sitting targets). It was nicknamed the Widowmaker because it required landing at very high speeds (on short runways) or it would stall and crash. I do recall David Modell preferring Americans.

For the earlier expansion bid, Baltimore had multiple ownership groups they presented to the league, each with different nicknames in mind.

Boogie Weinglass favored the Bombers, as you point out--it's for the same B-26--and a little more in your face than 'Marauders." He had filed a trademark for Bombers (which, by the way, was also on the list for the Memphis group, along with Hound Dogs and Showboats.) He also trademarked "Ravens" but ultimately dropped that idea because he thought there were already too many bird names in the NFL. I worked briefly for the ad agency that designed the Bomber logo.

Another, 'by the way': Weinglass was not bidding alone. Some of his minority partners included Barry Levinson, Ex-Colt Joe Washington and Peter G. Angelos. (Weinglass was part owner of the O's and would have divested shares).

The second ownership group was Malcom Glazer, the same guy who would go on to own the Tampa Bay franchise. He was pushing for "Cobras" as the team name.

The league didn't like either name. They didn't like the war connotation of Bomber. They had done their own research and pushed the name "Rhinos" on both groups, forcing them to agree that if Baltimore was chosen, it would be Rhinos regardless of which owner group they picked.

As it turns out, not only did they not like his proposed team name, NFL owners didn't like Boogie, either, seeing him as a loose cannon but weren't sold on Glazer either. The expansion process was a bit of a mess, with lawsuits in St. Louis; Memphis threatened to drop out and Jacksonville did drop out only to have Tagliabue talk them back in. The NFL awarded Charlotte a team but delayed the second announcement to give cities time to address the issues.

For Baltimore that meant dumping Glazer and Weinglass. Baltimore scurried to find someone with NFL ties. They had lost a potential bidder in Bob Tisch, who pulled out early in the process to instead buy a piece of the Giants. Another early group that faded was headed by Ed Hale, who had Bart Starr on board as a partner.

John Moag and Governor Schaffer lured Al Lerner to make a last minute bid, and put their weight behind him. Lerner, who made his money in Cleveland and Maryland, owned a 5% stake in the Browns. The expectation was that Lerner and Modell, who was on the expansion committee, would lobby fellow owners to sway votes Baltimore's way. Strangely, they never made an effort and Modell didn't even vote for Baltimore. Commissioner Tagliabue--a Redskins ticket holder and later earning the nickname "The Sun King" for favoring Jacksonville--worked against Baltimore behind the scenes on behalf of owner Jack Kent Cooke.

I've always maintained that Modell--out of financial desperation, cooked up a scheme to grab Baltimore's financial deal for himself, allowing Lerner to take over a new team in Cleveland with league money pumped in. Recall newspaper reports at the time how Schaffer was floored, in tears, at the announcement of Jacksonville, but Lerner quickly and quietly slipped out the back, unfazed by the news.

In the end, everyone involved in expansion "won" in one way or another. Baltimore got the Browns 3 years later. Cleveland got a new team stadium 3 years after that. Tennessee got the Oilers, albeit in Nashville (because of FedEx money), not Memphis, and St. Louis got the Rams from LA. I also believe the NFL used expansion to lure a lot of civic money into the league, paying fees and building new stadiums.

[bst3975]

A little confusing....the point of my comment was that Art fully intended to take the Cleveland franchise to Baltimore, but was legally blocked. If you research this, you will find that in the early hours / days of the announcement, Modell, himself referred to the team as the Baltimore Browns. That franchise was assigned to Cleveland and could not be moved. The franchise remained in Cleveland, and Baltimore received a new franchise by the NFL IN 1996. When Irsay did it to you, no one really made any effort to block the move. That's why they are still the Colts. Paul Brown had nothing to do with the move. He owned the Bengals, but I'll bet he had some comments on it.

You would expect him to use the old name at first because a new one would wait until details were settled. I don't believe for a minute that he would have kept the old name as he wanted to establish a connection with the new city and fanbase, for which "Browns" conjured memories of a Colts opponent that sometimes delivered disappointing championship game results.

As far as no one blocking the move, depends on who you mean. There was huge local outcry and lawsuits (including eminent domain claims) aimed at preventing the move, and at least at keeping the Colts name.

[DonNMass]

I actually bought a Baltimore Browns winter hat after they announced the move which would probably be worth some money now. I think my Dad or one of my kids used it and I never saw it again. I think it was a knock off for sure. I would gladly have rooted for the Baltimore Browns. The name actually sounds good if you ask me. Things worked out fine for both cities. From 18 to 29 I had no team to root for. I followed the Browns and the Chiefs a little.

Ahhh,....no

[Dirt1]

I remember the poll, but don't remember this option. It doesn't work. Can you imagine the Americans vs. the Patriots? I am glad they went with Poe's Crows.

I thought the NFL wanted them to be called the Baltimore Rhinos? I also remember Baltimore Bombers being considered.


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[DonNMass]

You would expect him to use the old name at first because a new one would wait until details were settled. I don't believe for a minute that he would have kept the old name as he wanted to establish a connection with the new city and fanbase, for which "Browns" conjured memories of a Colts opponent that sometimes delivered disappointing championship game results.

As far as no one blocking the move, depends on who you mean. There was huge local outcry and lawsuits (including eminent domain claims) aimed at preventing the move, and at least at keeping the Colts name.

I was nostalgically angry Baltimore couldn’t get back the Colts brand. I was wrong. Ravens are much more unique and special to a new generation.
I give that credit to Ozzie. His drafting led to a winning franchise from the inception. Ray, Ogden, Reed, and I’ll include Flacco.
It could have gone south real fast after a few years of the Ravens playing like the Browns.

[Shas]

The only major sports team whose name is a literary reference, yeah?

Not sure how major they are but 2 Scottish (round ball) football teams Heart of Midlothian and Queen of the South, both referencing their geographical locations, are named after Walter Scott novels. He was huge in the 19th C. when the teams were being formed.

There is another, more well known literary-derived sports franchise in the US. The New York Knicks.

Knicks comes from "Diedrich Knickerbocker," which was an invented pseudonym Washington Irving used for his 1809 satire: A History of New York.

After the book's release the name Knickerbocker became slang that mocked Dutch aristocracy in New York: dudes who smoked long pipes and wore short pants (similarly, the book is also the origin of the term used for their short pants, knickerbockers, or knickers).

[ravenfever]

I thought the NFL wanted them to be called the Baltimore Rhinos? I also remember Baltimore Bombers being considered.


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Bombers lost momentum after several bombing incidents thorough out the world most notably at that time was the Oklahoma bombing, never gained traction after that.

[Shas]

As far as no one blocking the move, depends on who you mean. There was huge local outcry and lawsuits (including eminent domain claims) aimed at preventing the move, and at least at keeping the Colts name.

Yes, there were lawsuits. Modell most likely would have won the lawsuits in court, but he was broke. He would have needed money from Baltimore, and there wasn't the stomach for it here after the Colts heritage was ripped from us. Modell was convinced, from multiple angles, to leave the colors behind in exchange for the lawsuit being dropped.

I'm convinced that privately revealing the plan for Lerner to become owner of a reconstituted Browns, with NFL money for a stadium, also helped Cleveland's leaders to back down.