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  1. #25
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    Re: Is it that Trump didn't do it? Or that maybe he did, but it's no big deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Intent is incredibly important here.

    The problem is intent is terribly difficult to prove or disprove. Itís likely resulting in a stalemate.
    So Ė I take your position as closest to "A" (from my OP). The actions that the Dems allege would be disturbing/problematic: but the evidence is murky, burden of proof pretty high and not met.

    Yeah?





  2. #26
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    Re: Is it that Trump didn't do it? Or that maybe he did, but it's no big deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad the lad View Post
    You are trying to have too many conversations at once. Start at the beginning of this thread and just read our conversation. You will understand
    I assume you don't mean "this" thread, but the "impending impeachment" thread? Fuck no, not doing that.

    I don't understand why this question isn't straightforward and easy to answer.
    Either:
    The actions that the Dems allege to Trump's part would be disturbing & problematic; but they haven't produced the evidence.
    Or:
    Even if the Dems "prove" their version of what happened, it still wouldn't amount to misconduct by Trump. Just standard operation of foreign policy in the real world.

    Right? I would think that a Trump supporter would believe that one of those things has to be true.



    I get that in either scenario, a Trump supporter could potentially think other things are ALSO true. Like if "B" above, then maybe the Dems know it wouldn't be misconduct, they are just cynically generating a smearing news cycle. And so forth: plenty of possible co-incident things with either of those two stances. But my main curiousity was the core view of the impeachment allegations.





  3. #27
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    Re: Is it that Trump didn't do it? Or that maybe he did, but it's no big deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    So Ė I take your position as closest to "A" (from my OP). The actions that the Dems allege would be disturbing/problematic: but the evidence is murky, burden of proof pretty high and not met.

    Yeah?
    Basically.

    I think it is accurate to say that Trump wanted Ukraine to investigate Burisma and the 2016 election theories. I also think itís fair to say that he wanted them to initiate that investigation before he released $$$ to them.

    I would bet that Trumpís intentions were primarily focused on Burisma and 2016, not Joe Biden and 2020.

    The problem is there is a lot of crossover there (politically). So, itís pretty easy to get from A to B to C.

    Itís just incredibly hard to prove intent. Therefore, I donít think the impeachment will result in much of anything except for political fodder for the 2020 election.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.

    RIP #25





  4. #28

    Re: Is it that Trump didn't do it? Or that maybe he did, but it's no big deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    True, I did not detail the allegation in the OP. I thought it was well understood what the topic of the hearings is.

    (BTW I was editing my last when you posted, restating the original question.)


    I take this to mean that your stance is "A" (from my OP): the action described would be disturbing, but the evidence shows that it didn't happen. Yeah?
    Well partially. I donít think it happened, at least the way described.
    I believe trump did want corruption investigated, from Burisma and what happened to the money to how much did they interefere in the election and who in the us was part of it. I think that is well within Presidential powers.
    I certainly donít give a rats ass that trump went around state and didnít use the Ďproperí bureaucratic process.





  5. #29

    Re: Is it that Trump didn't do it? Or that maybe he did, but it's no big deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by blah3 View Post
    Well partially. I don’t think it happened, at least the way described.
    I believe trump did want corruption investigated, from Burisma and what happened to the money to how much did they interefere in the election and who in the us was part of it. I think that is well within Presidential powers.
    I certainly don’t give a rats ass that trump went around state and didn’t use the ‘proper’ bureaucratic process.







  6. #30

    Re: Is it that Trump didn't do it? Or that maybe he did, but it's no big deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by SpaceCityRaven View Post
    Man, did I bang your mother? Piss in your Wheaties?

    Whatís with the hostility? I think we can disagree without insults, no?
    No, my mother, when alive, would always have preferred a real man. That's just the way she was.





  7. #31
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    Re: Is it that Trump didn't do it? Or that maybe he did, but it's no big deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by blah3 View Post
    Well partially. I donít think it happened, at least the way described.
    I believe trump did want corruption investigated, from Burisma and what happened to the money to how much did they interefere in the election and who in the us was part of it. I think that is well within Presidential powers.
    Asking for an investigation is well within presidential authority?
    Or holding up congressionally-approved military aid to an ally, until they jump an additional hurdle, is within presidential authority?





  8. #32
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    Re: Is it that Trump didn't do it? Or that maybe he did, but it's no big deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad the lad View Post
    You are trying to have too many conversations at once. Start at the beginning of this thread and just read our conversation. You will understand
    I'm a dumb. This thread should have started as a POLL; and that means I would have needed to make A & B in the original post mutually exclusive, rather than things that someone could answer "Both!" too.

    Please indulge me: I'm gonna try this again, in a new thread. Sorry for the spam / wasted bandwidth / redundant stuff.





  9. #33

    Re: Is it that Trump didn't do it? Or that maybe he did, but it's no big deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    Asking for an investigation is well within presidential authority?
    Or holding up congressionally-approved military aid to an ally, until they jump an additional hurdle, is within presidential authority?
    Yep





  10. #34

    Re: Is it that Trump didn't do it? Or that maybe he did, but it's no big deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    I assume you don't mean "this" thread, but the "impending impeachment" thread? Fuck no, not doing that.

    I don't understand why this question isn't straightforward and easy to answer.
    Either:
    The actions that the Dems allege to Trump's part would be disturbing & problematic; but they haven't produced the evidence.
    Or:
    Even if the Dems "prove" their version of what happened, it still wouldn't amount to misconduct by Trump. Just standard operation of foreign policy in the real world.

    Right? I would think that a Trump supporter would believe that one of those things has to be true.



    I get that in either scenario, a Trump supporter could potentially think other things are ALSO true. Like if "B" above, then maybe the Dems know it wouldn't be misconduct, they are just cynically generating a smearing news cycle. And so forth: plenty of possible co-incident things with either of those two stances. But my main curiousity was the core view of the impeachment allegations.
    You still didn’t go back and read my replies. If you take 2 mins to do that, you will get all of your questions answered.





  11. #35
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    Re: Is it that Trump didn't do it? Or that maybe he did, but it's no big deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    Asking for an investigation is well within presidential authority?
    Or holding up congressionally-approved military aid to an ally, until they jump an additional hurdle, is within presidential authority?
    If you remove Biden, I don't think there's any question both of those things are well within the realm of a President's power. It's only murky at all if he was after Biden being investigated specifically.

    Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk





  12. #36

    Re: Is it that Trump didn't do it? Or that maybe he did, but it's no big deal?






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