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  1. #13

    Re: Mvp- lamar jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by PerpetuallyBored74 View Post
    ** Elway in '87 put up Flacco-like numbers: 54.6 comp% -- 3198 yds -- 19 TDs -- 12 INTs -- 83.4 QB rating.
    Still won MVP somehow, maybe because of the three 4th Qtr comebacks...?
    Here's the thing: 3198 yds was the 4th-HIGHEST total for any QB in 1987. And 19 TDs put him in the top-10. This is why it's not reasonable to try and compare QBs from different generations.

    Also, people really need to stop calling guys like Elway and Moon "Running QBs". Their best seasons ever, they rushed for....wait for it....

    304 yards (Elway) and 268 yds (Moon)

    They were both good scrambling QBs who could extend plays, and would occasionally get you a 1st down with their feet, but that's entirely different that what the Ravens are doing with Lamar.
    "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but NOT to their own facts" - Daniel P. Moynihan





  2. #14
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    Re: Mvp- lamar jackson

    He's certainly in the conversation through 7 weeks. But it's not his to lose. A lot of other guys are doing great things too.
    Its not whether you get knocked down; its whether you get up.
    Vince Lombardi

    http://russellstreetreport.com/author/cole_jackson/

    Twitter: @ColeJacksonRSR





  3. #15
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    Re: Mvp- lamar jackson

    Hes an exciting, high profile player thats putting up record breaking stats (rushing) and wins, and on top of that hes highly likeable. I think youll see a lot of the typical options by seasons end, but hes deservedly in the conversation. The next 5 weeks will define this season and his chances of winning it.
    -JAB





  4. #16
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    Re: Mvp- lamar jackson

    Lamar threw for 143 yards. Obviously he did great things on the ground but passing yards are always a huge part of those post season awards. 143 yards through the air isn't going to cut it
    Long Live The Bat





  5. #17





  6. #18
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    Re: Mvp- lamar jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Lamar threw for 143 yards. Obviously he did great things on the ground but passing yards are always a huge part of those post season awards. 143 yards through the air isn't going to cut it
    If he ends up with 3800 yards, 25 Tds in the air and another 1300 and 7TDs on the ground, for combined 5100 yards and 32 TDs, like hes projected to currently, how do you feel about it? at what point does what he does with his legs overcome what he doesnt with his arm for you?

    I feel like I have to look at them collectively, and while 3800 yards passing isnt anything special in this league today, the 5100 total certainly would be and would include a record breaking season for a QB. I think that will play into that.
    -JAB





  7. #19

    Re: Mvp- lamar jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    If he ends up with 3800 yards, 25 Tds in the air and another 1300 and 7TDs on the ground, for combined 5100 yards and 32 TDs, like hes projected to currently, how do you feel about it? at what point does what he does with his legs overcome what he doesnt with his arm for you?

    I feel like I have to look at them collectively, and while 3800 yards passing isnt anything special in this league today, the 5100 total certainly would be and would include a record breaking season for a QB. I think that will play into that.
    Thank you. Someone gets it. You can't just pull apart parts of his game. Lamar is setting a new trend although his heart is unmeasurable. His passing is respectable right now and he'll get better. His running is once in a generational. Even above Vick. His start and stop is making guys look silly.

    It's the total package that is making Lamar become must see TV.





  8. #20
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    Re: Mvp- lamar jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    If he ends up with 3800 yards, 25 Tds in the air and another 1300 and 7TDs on the ground, for combined 5100 yards and 32 TDs, like hes projected to currently, how do you feel about it? at what point does what he does with his legs overcome what he doesnt with his arm for you?

    I feel like I have to look at them collectively, and while 3800 yards passing isnt anything special in this league today, the 5100 total certainly would be and would include a record breaking season for a QB. I think that will play into that.
    It has nothing to do with me. It has to do with the guys who vote which none of us do. These post season awards are like Madden Football. They have very little to do with reality. Look at who win these awards and you will see passing stats near the top in every category and lots of team wins.

    I'm not looking at who is on pace for anything on this Ravens team since they play a tougher teams than they did the first 6 games. I also think there could be a lot more games like yesterday where they don't throw because it's better to run. The Ravens aren't putting together a game plan based on passing stats. They're very happy throwing for 150 yards and taking the win. There's going to be more of those this year which aren't going to push Jackson's numbers up
    Long Live The Bat





  9. Re: Mvp- lamar jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkS View Post
    Here's the thing: 3198 yds was the 4th-HIGHEST total for any QB in 1987. And 19 TDs put him in the top-10. This is why it's not reasonable to try and compare QBs from different generations.

    Also, people really need to stop calling guys like Elway and Moon "Running QBs". Their best seasons ever, they rushed for....wait for it....

    304 yards (Elway) and 268 yds (Moon)

    They were both good scrambling QBs who could extend plays, and would occasionally get you a 1st down with their feet, but that's entirely different that what the Ravens are doing with Lamar.
    I'm aware that comparing stats from 30 years ago to ones today is very much like comparing apples to oranges.
    But Elway's numbers weren't significantly better than average in 1987.
    Elway: 54.6 comp% - 3198 yds - 19 TDs - 12 INTs - 83.4 QB rating.
    Team Average: 54.8 comp% - 3058.8 yds - 21.8 TDs - 19.3 INTs - 75.2 QB rating.
    NOTE: Team average includes both starters and backups, and '87 was the strike year, so not only did no QB start more than 12 games, but 3 games were played with replacement QBs, skewing all team's stats.

    His QB rating was 10th among starting QBs (min. 8 games**) in a league with 28 teams. Good, but hardly great:
    https://www.pro-football-reference.c...by=pass_rating

    If we're going purely by stats, he seems like an unlikely MVP, since statistically Montana trounced him, while Kosar and Marino both put up better numbers, as did arguably Lomax and Kreig, with Elway basically in a tie with Kelly and Cunningham, just ahead of Hebert and O'Brien. Other than yardage and 4th qtr comebacks, his numbers don't stand out, even in '87. Mind you, I'm not arguing that he shouldn't have been MVP, just that clearly they were looking at more than just stats--like believing that he carried his team more than those other QBs did--when they chose him (again those 4th qtr comebacks)

    ** If you raise the minimum to 9 games, then Elway is now 8th in QB rating, raise it to 10 and he's then 7th.

    edit--found an article that jogged my faulty memory. '87 was the year that Jerry Rice scored a then record 22 TDs at WR, since broken by Moss. And he did it in only 12 games!
    So, what happened is that both Montana and Rice got votes for MVP, essentially splitting the 49er vote, which allowed Elway to win.
    https://www.footballperspective.com/...ana-and-elway/
    Last edited by PerpetuallyBored74; 10-21-2019 at 08:28 PM.





  10. #22

    Re: Mvp- lamar jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by RavensQB View Post
    If Lamar keeps up the stats he is producing now. MVP is his to LOSE.
    Watson, Russell, Brady, Rodgers, dalvin cook all have stronger cases imo





  11. #23
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    Re: Mvp- lamar jackson

    Quote Originally Posted by HbgPARavenfan View Post
    Watson, Russell, Brady, Rodgers, dalvin cook all have stronger cases imo
    If he can will the team to a win against the patriots his case gets stronger

    Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk





  12. #24
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    Re: Mvp- lamar jackson

    The fact that a Ravens QB is in the conversation for MVP is mind blowing.
    The old school defensive team is evolving
    World Domination 3 Points at a Time!





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