Results 25 to 36 of 178
-
10-21-2019, 08:30 PM #25
-
10-21-2019, 08:32 PM #26Veteran Poster
- Join Date
- Aug 2019
- Posts
- 3,074
-
10-21-2019, 08:35 PM #27
Re: Tulsi Gabbard is a Russian Puppet...
WHAT nefarious relationships?
Hillary is a crazy old bitty that needs to just go away. If you are a Republican she is actually an assett for you at this point. Few in the center are going to take her seriously anymore. She comes off as (and is) a spiteful old hag who thinks Americans are stupid for not electing her.
-
10-21-2019, 08:47 PM #28Hall Of Fame Poster
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
- Posts
- 5,595
-
10-22-2019, 04:37 AM #29
Re: Tulsi Gabbard is a Russian Puppet...
EDIT: I'm gonna try to explain this to you, but first read this. https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/why-s...-always-fails/
Okay, here's how this goes.
By the time I was your age, thanks to hard work, I was settling into my career. Around the same time my wife finished her masters in accounting and so settled into her career. Now she's the vice-president for a multi-billion dollar bank, and I'm an egghead. We're not the 1% by any stretch, but we have a nice house, three cars, and I was able to take off to England for a month this summer to finish some research while she got season tickets to Alabama games. When we got married, she was a roving teller and I was TA hoping like hell for an adjunct position that'd pay me 11k a year. We kept at it and worked hard for what we have.
The question is, why should we go through all that struggle (I had offers to teach at some community colleges around here for 40k a year but wanted a university position) if we're just gonna have the same things as a guy flipping burgers? Why should I go to college for seven years, three of which were spent away from the woman I love, if I'm not gonna be paid much more than someone who barely graduated high school? That is the thing socialists cannot answer. Why would people work hard if there is no reward?
You're answer is gonna be some variation of nobody will have to work hard. Probably followed up by some argument about the people owning the means of production. The thing you fail to grasp is that if nobody has any capital (you'll note that is the root word of capitalism) then no factories are being built. You might try saying that the government will build the factories, which is communism. Then I'll ask you about innovation. For example, American pharmaceutical companies outstrip the rest of the world when it comes to medical breakthroughs. True we're more expensive, but damn if it ain't worth it.
I'm a medievalist by trade, so I know plenty about the rise of capitalism and what came before it. For about 5,000 years, society was pretty much the same. Hell, the British were still using medical textbooks from ancient Rome in the 18th century. But the plague hit Europe in the 14th century and suddenly people started getting paid fair wages for their labor. The king and parliament passed laws that stipulated peasants could not be paid more for farming one landowners farm than another's, but that most assuredly was laughed at by everybody who mattered (you might recognize the attempt at wage fixing as something your party believes in). People started getting paid more if they worked harder. Some were able to buy land. I remember an article dealing with the caste system, and this guy started out as an indentured servant in England, selling his own wares at market once a week. When he died, he left three sizable tracts of land to his two sons and daughter. Before capitalism he would never have been able to do that. You, for some inexplicable reason, want us to go back to the way things were BEFORE the bubonic plague hit.
And you call yourselves progressive.Last edited by darb72; 10-22-2019 at 05:33 AM.
"A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, “Hi I’m Ben may I have a drink please?”
ProFootballMock
-
10-22-2019, 06:32 AM #30
Re: Tulsi Gabbard is a Russian Puppet...
Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion. I, for one, despise pretty much everything Gabbard stands for(not everything). Way too far left for me, although, for some reason, some folks on here seem to think she's somewhat center or moderate. I can't grasp where they get that, but to each their own. Maybe in relation to some of the far left candidates, she may seem much better, perhaps (?) I've read up on her and I'll pass.
-
10-22-2019, 10:44 AM #31Veteran Poster
- Join Date
- Aug 2018
- Posts
- 3,644
Re: Tulsi Gabbard is a Russian Puppet...
I feel like you are misinformed on the way Andrew Yang wants to fund his main policy. From what you are saying (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that you think Yang wants to implement a sort of wealth tax/income tax, which is categorically wrong. I disagree with wealth taxes because as you said, it punishes those who work and save to get to where they want to in life.
What Yang is proposing is a Value Added Tax (VAT) which taxes consumption. A VAT combined with a Universal Basic Income is super progressive and allows people to build on that while making sure basic staples like food and shelter are taken care of. As he says, "it's not socialism, it's capitalism that doesn't start at zero."
It's the opposite of providing tax breaks to corporations and giving bailouts to wall street. Yangs premise is that the way we have been doing business in the country is creating a larger and larger wealth gap. By giving the money directly to the people, it will spur entrepreneurship, job creation, and a much healthier form of capitalism.
Also, I would also kindly like to point out that your point about people working less has been debunked with pretty much every UBI study. The only people who work less were new mothers and kids who just finished high school (who probably went to college or something). Everyone worked just about the same or changed their profession in order to do something that made them happier.
Also, I would argue and say that the local infrastructure and economy would drastically increase in quality because of the infusion of consumer spending power. You don't need the government building factories when your average consumer is working hard and also has the commensurate amount of money to spend. I can foresee an increased need for mechanics/garages, bakeries, art, and other local businesses that get filled by the private sector.
The only jobs that the government would supply perhaps would be the updating of infrastructure.
-
10-22-2019, 10:56 AM #32Hall Of Fame Poster
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
- Posts
- 9,188
Re: Tulsi Gabbard is a Russian Puppet...
UBI is ridiculous. To give all that money to people you first have to take that money from people. So even if it were run at 100% efficiency (which it absolutely won’t) you are at 0% influx of money into the economy.
And a VAT tax is simply going to run up the cost of goods so people aren’t really going to be buying more, they are simply going to be paying more for what they already buy
-
10-22-2019, 11:28 AM #33Veteran Poster
- Join Date
- Aug 2018
- Posts
- 3,644
Re: Tulsi Gabbard is a Russian Puppet...
Yep, I completely agree with you that money would be taken from the consumer because some of the tax would be passed along to us. However, adding a UBI of $1,000 a month makes it almost negligible. For the average person, it's a complete win since, by the numbers, you would have to spend between $10,000 - $11,000 per month on non-staple goods in order to nullify the net increase of receiving the UBI.
Most rich people spend that amount pretty easily which is why they would probably pay into it more. But for the average person, the increase in the amount on goods because of the VAT would amount to about +/- $550/600 based on most studies. The average person would come out ahead by about $11,400.
The European level VAT is around 20%. Yang is proposing 10% along with a UBI. You also have to remember that corporations will have to eat to some of the tax in order to remain competitive. You can't just pass everything off to the consumer or you'll fall behind.
I think this is the best way to start decreasing the wealth gap.
-
10-22-2019, 11:30 AM #34Pro Bowl Poster
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
- Posts
- 2,074
-
Re: Tulsi Gabbard is a Russian Puppet...
Socially, I'm not super enthusiastic about her ideas. However, I like that she is pretty Libertarian when it comes to foreign intervention. That I agree with.
However, seems to me that Trump is becoming more Libertarian when it comes to getting away from foreign interventionism, etc.Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.
-
10-22-2019, 11:47 AM #36Hall Of Fame Poster
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
- Posts
- 9,188
Re: Tulsi Gabbard is a Russian Puppet...
This makes no sense. If you agree that money will come out of the economy, you can’t then go around and just hike up the amount given in UBI and say I will more than offset it. The fancy new VAT tax is to pay for the UBI, so by definition the amount taken out of the economy has to Be the same amount given. It’s a total wash (again assuming 100% efficiency which won’t happen)
Bookmarks