Yesterday's attendance

**Shrubbs** · 10-15-2019, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by camdenyard

No, that's fine. I'm saying that if you as an obvious fan have zero desire to see a game in person, that speaks volumes.

Again, you are alluding to something that I'm not getting. Just come out and say it. Speaks volumes about what? How much I care about the team? About how much money my demographic makes? About my demographic's interest in the team at all? I'm not trying to be difficult, I don't understand the point you're dancing around.

When I say "Drop $35 for no reason" I'm talking about spending money on something non-essential. I got bills to pay, I'm saving for my wedding next month, etc. So if I can see the game for free or pay $35 (plus parking, plus fees, plus gas, plus whatever I buy in the building) I'm going to save that money.

**camdenyard** · 10-15-2019, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Shrubbs

Again, you are alluding to something that I'm not getting. Just come out and say it. Speaks volumes about what? How much I care about the team? About how much money my demographic makes? About my demographic's interest in the team at all? I'm not trying to be difficult, I don't understand the point you're dancing around.

When I say "Drop $35 for no reason" I'm talking about spending money on something non-essential. I got bills to pay, I'm saving for my wedding next month, etc. So if I can see the game for free or pay $35 (plus parking, plus fees, plus gas, plus whatever I buy in the building) I'm going to save that money.

Sorry if I am not being clear.

You don't attach importance to or prioritize attending games in person. For whatever reason. And I know LARGE numbers of people who call themselves "plus" fans who feel the same way in your demographic. Nothing to do with your specific situation. I'm pointing out a shift in behavior patterns, that is all.

**PurplePill** · 10-15-2019, 02:58 PM

I would guess somewhere around 60K in attendance total. That's still 10,000 no-shows which is more than I would like to see, but that's just today's NFL. If it's not a big draw, or weather isn't perfect, or something else is going on that day people can't sell their tickets so they go unused. Makes no sense to me, but their money. I haven't had a single ticket out of my four that have gone unused like ever. Not saying I go to every game, but saying my tickets get used. It is getting tougher and tougher to get good crowds for non-marquis games, even with a first place team. I just don't think the younger generation has a much interest as we did and I also definitely don't think the automatically "root for the home team" like in the past. Many younger fans adopt other teams or are sort of ambivalent to a particular geographic area's teams. Lots of moving around too. Just different than it used to be...

**Shrubbs** · 10-15-2019, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by camdenyard

Sorry if I am not being clear.

You don't attach importance to or prioritize attending games in person. For whatever reason. And I know LARGE numbers of people who call themselves "plus" fans who feel the same way in your demographic. Nothing to do with your specific situation. I'm pointing out a shift in behavior patterns, that is all.

Ok I get what you're saying. And I agree with you. I monetarily prioritize things like my fiance, bills, family, and my faith before the Ravens. The nice thing is I'm not going to be making an entry level salary forever, and hopefully then I can get to some home games as I advance in my career. But for right now, it's 80/20 for the couch. And I do notice that in people in their 20s. Most of us I feel are actually pretty financially conservative. We don't have cable. We don't buy extravagant things. We rarely vacation. Again, that's just anecdotally among my friends, maybe I'm missing the bigger picture. I think it's harder than people realize to break into the workforce, and student debt is such a weight around people my age's necks. The cost of college has gone up by 10X the rate of inflation, and despite this, a bachelor's degree doesn't carry the same weight it used to. My fiance JUST got a job (graduated in May) and she's getting paid less than $40K a year. And we were actively looking every single day for those 5 months.

I'm not here to complain or lay any financial issues out on the board, just trying to illustrate why I, and maybe those like me, are keen to save $35 when they get the chance.

I'm also lucky to know a family friend who has season tickets and offers me some once or twice a year, so I've had the opportunity to go in those situations. I do not take that for granted.

**Shrubbs** · 10-15-2019, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by PurplePill

I also definitely don't think the automatically "root for the home team" like in the past. Many younger fans adopt other teams or are sort of ambivalent to a particular geographic area's teams. Lots of moving around too. Just different than it used to be...

This is really really true, especially for teams that are bad. I think it's a fantasy football thing.

My fiance's family are die hard Skins fans. They're from like the DC suburbs. Her mother and sister never miss a game, they're all so into it. But she has some cousins that are all between the ages of 9-12. None of them, not one, are Redskins fans. Rams, Giants, and Colts. And they told me their entire school is like this. I asked the oldest son why he's a Colts fan, and it was because he won a fantasy championship with Andrew Luck. I remember growing up in Baltimore city in Elementary School, we would all play football and say, I'm Todd Heap, I'm Ray Lewis, I'm Ed Reed, etc. There was ONE Bears fan (moved here from Chicago) and we would always argue about Brian Urlacher vs Ray Lewis. But fantasy football wasn't really a thing even when I was growing up, until Middle School, but by then I was an entrenched Ravens fan.

Again, not necessarily a bad thing, just sort of an interesting shift in the mindset of the average fan.

**Ravens Renegade** · 10-15-2019, 06:05 PM

Watching from home, it didn't appear to be much "Juice" in the Bank on Sunday. Cincinnati NEVER has a presence in our stadium, combined with there being no buzz surrounding an 0-5 Bengals team. It was what i expected, Lackluster. Even in the loudest years at M&T there were always a few duds per season.

**Ravens Renegade** · 10-15-2019, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by PurplePill

I would guess somewhere around 60K in attendance total. That's still 10,000 no-shows which is more than I would like to see, but that's just today's NFL. If it's not a big draw, or weather isn't perfect, or something else is going on that day people can't sell their tickets so they go unused. Makes no sense to me, but their money. I haven't had a single ticket out of my four that have gone unused like ever. Not saying I go to every game, but saying my tickets get used. It is getting tougher and tougher to get good crowds for non-marquis games, even with a first place team. I just don't think the younger generation has a much interest as we did and I also definitely don't think the automatically "root for the home team" like in the past. Many younger fans adopt other teams or are sort of ambivalent to a particular geographic area's teams. Lots of moving around too. Just different than it used to be...

A friend of mine went and he thought the crowd was somewhere in the 60 thousands as well. When the cameras panned the crowd, there were seemingly 8-10 fans in every section getting up and going into the concourses. They were stir-crazy. Also, the crowd never seemed to recover from the punt return by the Bengals to start the game. Had that not happened, I think we would have seen M&T louder & rowdier.

**Ortizer** · 10-17-2019, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by camdenyard

I don't believe young people don't have money to go to a game or 2 or 3. By and large, the 18-25 demographic has MORE disposable income than previous generations. And as has been said, Ravens tickets can be had for 30-40 bucks which today isn't outrageous.

What I think they aren't buying is the concept of a PSL ("you mean I have to pay for the right to buy the same ticket for every game, including preseason jokefests, and provide the team a guaranteed revenue stream? Yeah right") - and then feeling obligated to go to all of those games. Older people looked at this like an emotional investment and a duty to support the team. I just don't think that mindset exists anymore.

PSLs don't work when demand softens.

People don't want to give up every other Sunday to go to games when entertainment options are aplenty and watch-at-home technology is superior. I didn't even know Ronnie Stanley was hurt and out of the game briefly. If there was some announcement on the big screen, I missed it. I would have known about it on TV.

The NFL has to figure this out, because it's getting worse every year.

Tbh, I remember when the jets got their new stadium when I was in high school and they added the concept of psls and it sounded like the dumbest thing I had ever heard.

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**Ortizer** · 10-18-2019, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by camdenyard

Sorry if I am not being clear.

You don't attach importance to or prioritize attending games in person. For whatever reason. And I know LARGE numbers of people who call themselves "plus" fans who feel the same way in your demographic. Nothing to do with your specific situation. I'm pointing out a shift in behavior patterns, that is all.

Also points out a shift in the value of the in person experience vs watching at home.

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**Ortizer** · 10-18-2019, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by Shrubbs

Ok I get what you're saying. And I agree with you. I monetarily prioritize things like my fiance, bills, family, and my faith before the Ravens. The nice thing is I'm not going to be making an entry level salary forever, and hopefully then I can get to some home games as I advance in my career. But for right now, it's 80/20 for the couch. And I do notice that in people in their 20s. Most of us I feel are actually pretty financially conservative. We don't have cable. We don't buy extravagant things. We rarely vacation. Again, that's just anecdotally among my friends, maybe I'm missing the bigger picture. I think it's harder than people realize to break into the workforce, and student debt is such a weight around people my age's necks. The cost of college has gone up by 10X the rate of inflation, and despite this, a bachelor's degree doesn't carry the same weight it used to. My fiance JUST got a job (graduated in May) and she's getting paid less than $40K a year. And we were actively looking every single day for those 5 months.

I'm not here to complain or lay any financial issues out on the board, just trying to illustrate why I, and maybe those like me, are keen to save $35 when they get the chance.

I'm also lucky to know a family friend who has season tickets and offers me some once or twice a year, so I've had the opportunity to go in those situations. I do not take that for granted.

I mean, or you're just not a real fan. :shrug:

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