Starts with 20+ points to begin career

[NjRavensFan]

Nj, I'm not as sophisticated as some (many ?) of you, but I've seen :

LJ in 2018 threw 170 passes (99 completions - 58%), running 147 times. Almost 50 - 50.
IMO he was likely being trained to be more of a passer during the off-season.
OK, now in 2019 it's 195 pass attempts, with 69 rushing, but as I see with my (sometimes lying eyes) LJ looks so confident with the football in his hands. Just look at the stats from the Bengals game to see how dynamic he is as a runner... Bc

You can’t just look at the number of runs Bc. The vast majority of those were designed. Stats are great but they don’t tell you much about a player’s instincts and that’s what you and NC were talking about.

I’ve never argued that he isn’t a dynamic runner. Just that it’s not his instinct to scramble on designed passing plays.

[NjRavensFan]

Do you remember where you heard/read that? I don't think the nextGen data are infallible (and I'm sure the script to parse it is even less perfect), but what you're saying doesn't match with what I've found. Even after three weeks, Stafford (22) still had more 20+ yard throws than Lamar (21). Certain passes don't appear on the charts (the incompletion to Roberts at the end of Pit game (Q4, 00:20) is an example), but most should be there.

20+ Yard Passes (via nextGen charts)

Week	Lamar	Mahomes	Watson	Stafford	Winston	Rivers	Murray	Prescott
1	4	2	5	11	4	3	9	4
2	5	11	7	6	5	5	5	2
3	12	5	6	5	9	10	4	6
4	2	8	4	7	3	2	2	4
5	1	9	5	bye	2	2	3	9
6	3	6	7	-	6	6	4	2
Total	27	41	34	29	29	28	27	27

Regardless, I found this helpful. The problem isn't necessarily a lack of deep shots. The problem is that they're not hitting them. Lamar hasn't completed a pass over 20 yards since week 3.

Week	Result	Attempts
1	COMPLETE	1
1	INCOMPLETE	1
1	TOUCHDOWN	2
2	COMPLETE	2
2	INCOMPLETE	3
3	COMPLETE	3
3	INCOMPLETE	9
4	INCOMPLETE	1
4	INTERCEPTION	1
5	INTERCEPTION	1
6	INCOMPLETE	3

By week:

1. 3/4 with 2 TDs
2. 2/5
3. 3/12
4. 0/1 with 1 INT
5. 0/1 with 1 INT
6. 0/3

Iirc the stat wasn’t that he had the most raw attempts, but I also heard what I think NC heard which was that he had the highest *percentage* of attempts 20+ yards or more after week 3. He was a few behind Mahomes and maybe Stafford but they both had more total pass attempts overall. Fitzpatrick was up there as well but he’d since been benched.

Flacco was lowest of anyone who had started all three games.

[Continuity Steve]

Do you remember where you heard/read that? I don't think the nextGen data are infallible (and I'm sure the script to parse it is even less perfect), but what you're saying doesn't match with what I've found. Even after three weeks, Stafford (22) still had more 20+ yard throws than Lamar (21). Certain passes don't appear on the charts (the incompletion to Roberts at the end of Pit game (Q4, 00:20) is an example), but most should be there.

20+ Yard Passes (via nextGen charts)

Week	Lamar	Mahomes	Watson	Stafford	Winston	Rivers	Murray	Prescott
1	4	2	5	11	4	3	9	4
2	5	11	7	6	5	5	5	2
3	12	5	6	5	9	10	4	6
4	2	8	4	7	3	2	2	4
5	1	9	5	bye	2	2	3	9
6	3	6	7	-	6	6	4	2
Total	27	41	34	29	29	28	27	27

Regardless, I found this helpful. The problem isn't necessarily a lack of deep shots. The problem is that they're not hitting them. Lamar hasn't completed a pass over 20 yards since week 3.

Week	Result	Attempts
1	COMPLETE	1
1	INCOMPLETE	1
1	TOUCHDOWN	2
2	COMPLETE	2
2	INCOMPLETE	3
3	COMPLETE	3
3	INCOMPLETE	9
4	INCOMPLETE	1
4	INTERCEPTION	1
5	INTERCEPTION	1
6	INCOMPLETE	3

By week:

1. 3/4 with 2 TDs
2. 2/5
3. 3/12
4. 0/1 with 1 INT
5. 0/1 with 1 INT
6. 0/3

The interesting thing about week 1 was that those 4 passes were out of 20 overall, so 20% of his shots were deep. Since then, the number of passes per game has went way up, and the proportion of deep shots has went down, save for week 3. By percentage of total passes:

1: 4/20 20% 5 Pass TD 59 points
2: 5/37 13.5% 2 Pass TD 23 points
3: 12/43 27.9% 0 Pass TD 28 points
4: 2/34 5.8% 3 Pass TD 25 points
5: 1/28 3.5% 1 Pass TD 26 points
6: 3/33 9.1% 0 Pass TD 23 points

Honestly not as much of a correlation to higher scoring as I would have thought, but the tendency does appear to be a higher percentage of deep shots tends to lead to a better score and/or more passing touchdowns (with one outlier in both directions). 6 games is a bit of a small sample size, so it would be interesting to see how this looks over a whole season.

[Laxdad24]

While I get the excitement over Lamar , do we need more useless stats that prop him up? I mean great the team has scored 20+ pts in all his regular season starts! And yes that’s a nice stat for him and good company. But let’s not lose sight. Between all four of those guys ...there’s exactly ONE Super Bowl Champ. That’s why we tune in as fans. That’s why they play.


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[HotInHere]

While I get the excitement over Lamar , do we need more useless stats that prop him up? I mean great the team has scored 20+ pts in all his regular season starts! And yes that’s a nice stat for him and good company. But let’s not lose sight. Between all four of those guys ...there’s exactly ONE Super Bowl Champ. That’s why we tune in as fans. That’s why they play.


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All stats are in context. I agree with you, a streak of 20 point games is in no way a precursor of a Lombardi.

What it tells me is that this is a team that is hard to shut down/shut out. 20 points isn't going to win most games in the NFL. But scoring at least 20 gives you a chance to win.

During the years of inept offense for this franchise -- including the 2000 season -- we were happy to get 10 points. I like the consistency, but I agree it doesn't mean that much in the grand scheme.

[NjRavensFan]

While I get the excitement over Lamar , do we need more useless stats that prop him up? I mean great the team has scored 20+ pts in all his regular season starts! And yes that’s a nice stat for him and good company. But let’s not lose sight. Between all four of those guys ...there’s exactly ONE Super Bowl Champ. That’s why we tune in as fans. That’s why they play.


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Van Brocklin is a two time NFL champion (he retired years before the first Super Bowl lol), Warner has a SB ring, and the other two guys are in their second year as starters. And if Dee Ford didn’t line up in the neutral zone on the game sealing pick in the AFCCG Mahomes probably would have a ring as well. So I’m not sure what the point of this post is.

And I don’t think the thread is being used to “prop up” Lamar, it’s just an interesting fact that CBS mentioned during their broadcast and Jim decided to pass on.

[NC Raven]

Iirc the stat wasn’t that he had the most raw attempts, but I also heard what I think NC heard which was that he had the highest *percentage* of attempts 20+ yards or more after week 3. He was a few behind Mahomes and maybe Stafford but they both had more total pass attempts overall. Fitzpatrick was up there as well but he’d since been benched.

Flacco was lowest of anyone who had started all three games.

That might very well have been it. I remember seeing a chart with Lamar at the top and Flacco way down at or near the bottom. Might have been posted here, not sure.

Point I was trying to make on that though was just that his improved completion pct is even more impressive given how often he was throwing deep. People can't say its all due to screens and checkdowns because it seems like we go out of our way NOT to call those kinds of plays.

[JimZipCode]

I guess this is one time where it is a good thing that they don't count playoff games in stats like these. After all the final score in the Wild Card Round was 23-17, Chargers over Ravens, which was Lamar's actual eighth start.

Oh wow, good catch.

[Laxdad24]

Van Brocklin is a two time NFL champion (he retired years before the first Super Bowl lol), Warner has a SB ring, and the other two guys are in their second year as starters. And if Dee Ford didn’t line up in the neutral zone on the game sealing pick in the AFCCG Mahomes probably would have a ring as well. So I’m not sure what the point of this post is.

And I don’t think the thread is being used to “prop up” Lamar, it’s just an interesting fact that CBS mentioned during their broadcast and Jim decided to pass on.

Oh it’s def to Prop Up Lamar. I like Jimmy as much as anyone here ...but he’s a huge cheerleader. He’s the “Anti-Sword”. Lol.

My point is I’m sure Lamar himself couldn’t care less. Why make a big deal of it. The kid knows Rings are what the game is about.


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[NjRavensFan]

Oh it’s def to Prop Up Lamar. I like Jimmy as much as anyone here ...but he’s a huge cheerleader. He’s the “Anti-Sword”. Lol.

My point is I’m sure Lamar himself couldn’t care less. Why make a big deal of it. The kid knows Rings are what the game is about.


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Fair enough, but I don’t think a little thread on this random message board counts as making a big deal of anything 😂

Tbf tho CBS shared the stat before Jim did, and I don’t think they’re Ravens cheerleaders

[NjRavensFan]

I guess this is one time where it is a good thing that they don't count playoff games in stats like these. After all the final score in the Wild Card Round was 23-17, Chargers over Ravens, which was Lamar's actual eighth start.

There have also been two different games this year where it was announced that Lamar was the first QB in NFL history to pass for X and run for Y in the same game, but both had already been accomplished by Colin Kaepernick against the Packers in the 2012 NFC Divisional Round. Same day as the Mile High Miracle. I guess most records like this are regular season only.

[JimZipCode]

But let’s not lose sight. Between all four of those guys: there’s exactly ONE Super Bowl Champ.

Jesus Christ. That's the stupidest thing I've read this month.

Of those four guys:

• Norm van Brocklin's career ended in 1960, seven years before the first SB.
• And the other two non-SB winners are just in their second year as starters.

What the hell, Lax?

Van Brocklin, btw, won the NFL Championship with the Rams and with Philly. The Philly win in 1960 makes Van Brocklin the only QB to ever beat a Lombardi-coached Green Bay team in a championship game.

But you're right, van Brocklin never won a SB.