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  1. #37

    Re: Canīt someone please stop Trump from tweeting??

    Quote Originally Posted by BuryRaven View Post
    I have to jump in as the resident economist. FDR is universally praised in the liberal arts yet despised in the realm of business academia (econ, finance business). The sole reason for the US exiting the great depression was due to the second world war and Europe post war being utterly destabilized. People who see central government as the answer to market conditions will love the guy people who operate inside the market as participants are far more inclined to loath structured and planned economies. If you want me to break everything out I'm more than willing mind you the reading material on this topic is dense.
    I'd be interested in reading that. Even as a liberal arts academic, I'm still a big fan of free market economies, probably because I grew up in the real world.
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, “Hi I’m Ben may I have a drink please?”
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  2. #38

    Re: Canīt someone please stop Trump from tweeting??

    Quote Originally Posted by darb72 View Post
    I'd be interested in reading that. Even as a liberal arts academic, I'm still a big fan of free market economies, probably because I grew up in the real world.
    I think a good place to start for any student of economics would be "Monetary History of the United States..." by friedman and schwartz. Now I very much agree with the austrian pov which is why I also would ask students to look at Blyth's "Austerity: The History of a Dangerous Idea". Mark is a political scientist which I very much disagree with but I think seeing both perspectives will aid in understanding the economic history of this time period. Both of these should be cheap, although Blyth's book came out in 2013 so it could be pricier.





  3. #39

    Re: Canīt someone please stop Trump from tweeting??

    Quote Originally Posted by BuryRaven View Post
    I have to jump in as the resident economist. FDR is universally praised in the liberal arts yet despised in the realm of business academia (econ, finance business). The sole reason for the US exiting the great depression was due to the second world war and Europe post war being utterly destabilized. People who see central government as the answer to market conditions will love the guy people who operate inside the market as participants are far more inclined to loath structured and planned economies. If you want me to break everything out I'm more than willing mind you the reading material on this topic is dense.
    BuryRaven... I agree with all of this. FDR did more long term economic damage to the US than any president. I've read quite a bit about him. There is very little to like. Yet we are told it is just "commonplace" that he is one of the greatest presidents of all time! From ONE perspective... I'll agree with that. From nearly every other perspective, he is in the bottom quadrant.
    "Always remember that you are absolutely unique. Just like everyone else." -Margaret Mead





  4. #40

    Re: Canīt someone please stop Trump from tweeting??

    In case his economic policy wasn’t bad enough he also started the League of Nations which led to the UN... probably not good long term for the US empire either.



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  5. #41

    Re: Canīt someone please stop Trump from tweeting??

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    In case his economic policy wasn’t bad enough he also started the League of Nations which led to the UN... probably not good long term for the US empire either.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I believe that was Wilson who was the architect of the LoN. FDRs economic policy speaks for itself. Jobs programs tend to be horrible because they don't actually produce much. The land utilizing TVA electricity was worse off economically than the surrounding land that saw private energy expansion.
    "economic growth in bordering states, where people didn't get their electricity from the TVA, equaled or surpassed growth within the Tennessee Valley" and this was done in under 50 years. Income per person annualized, in Georgia surpassed the TVA region by the mid 40s.





  6. #42
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    Re: Canīt someone please stop Trump from tweeting??

    Quote Originally Posted by steelerhater View Post
    Sorry, but disliking Trump is anti-American. He is trying to make this country better and, of course, the socialist countries of Europe don’t want to see a strong America.
    No, it is not, what a silly notion even. But I know itīs somehow a popular one on the fringe right. In reality though, it is anti-Trump, not anti-american.
    Which socialist countries would that be?
    And most of Europe does indeed like a strong America, along with a strong Europe. This decision to withdraw and keep spewing crazt tweet after crazy tweet is doing the opposite.





  7. #43
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    Re: Canīt someone please stop Trump from tweeting??

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Pakistan, and Somalia.
    Afghanistan and Iraq were “started by Bush”

    We are still as “war” with which of these, in your view point?



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    In my opinion you wre never at war with most of these countries per se, save for the inherited wars and Libya, which was an intervention that probably was needed, and it was an international intervention, not Obamas war.

    So, which of these countries are you currently NOT having any armed forces or conducting air strikes and drone attacks in then? Iīll tell. Itīs going on still in all of them.





  8. #44
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    Re: Canīt someone please stop Trump from tweeting??

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmaniac4life View Post
    Let's set the record straight on this.

    Obama did face a severe economic downturn when he assumed office, and we are always told this when describing his legacy. Let's establish some historical context here.

    Facing a challenging economic situation is not at all unique for American presidents. However, we are made to believe that Obama faced an uphill climb like no other president before him. That’s not true at all.

    What a lot of people don’t realize is that America had either depressions or recessions in 1797 (under Adams), 1807 (under Jefferson), 1815-1821 (under Madison and Monroe), 1837 (under Van Buren), 1857 (under Buchanan), 1873 (under Grant), 1893 (under Cleveland), 1907 (under Teddy Roosevelt), 1920-21 (under Harding), the Great Depression (under Hoover and FDR), 1973 (under Nixon), and the Carter years and early Reagan years. That leaves aside stock market crashes under Reagan, the mild economic downturn under George H.W. Bush, the bursting of the internet bubble under Bill Clinton. The question is what he did under those circumstances. Obama proceeded to lead one of the weakest recoveries in American history.
    Who says he had an uphill climb like no other before him? It was a mess, I think even conservatives agree on that.

    One of the weakest recovieries you say? Based on what?





  9. #45
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    Re: Canīt someone please stop Trump from tweeting??

    Quote Originally Posted by BuryRaven View Post
    I have to jump in as the resident economist. FDR is universally praised in the liberal arts yet despised in the realm of business academia (econ, finance business). The sole reason for the US exiting the great depression was due to the second world war and Europe post war being utterly destabilized. People who see central government as the answer to market conditions will love the guy people who operate inside the market as participants are far more inclined to loath structured and planned economies. If you want me to break everything out I'm more than willing mind you the reading material on this topic is dense.
    Well, despised would be a strong word, unless youīre a libertarian. All economists that Iīve read anything from that despise him are libertarian and despise practically any and everything that would even insinuate any intervention into the free market. Most of them also would be heavily influenced by von Mises or Friedman for example.

    There was no sole reason for exiting the great depression, but many, of which the war was the biggest one of course. But several of Roosevelts policies worked, but of course he did increase the state, he did regulate banks and markets, minimum wages etc. A libertarian would always hate that. Me as a social democrat will always tend to like it...

    If we are to try and have some common starting point perhaps? Íīve read some, although not much compared to you Iīm sure.





  10. #46
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    Re: Canīt someone please stop Trump from tweeting??

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    In case his economic policy wasn’t bad enough he also started the League of Nations which led to the UN... probably not good long term for the US empire either.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That was Wilson, but he was indeed in on creating the UN. And I must say I find it deeply disturbing that so many right wingers here only seem to have contempt for the UN. Do you even know what they do on a daily basis? How much has become better and easier becasue of it? You only seem to think of the in the council, but the UN is so much more. What theyīve done for world health for example is something often overlooked.





  11. #47

    Re: Canīt someone please stop Trump from tweeting??

    Quote Originally Posted by bossofataka View Post
    Well, despised would be a strong word, unless youīre a libertarian. All economists that Iīve read anything from that despise him are libertarian and despise practically any and everything that would even insinuate any intervention into the free market. Most of them also would be heavily influenced by von Mises or Friedman for example.

    There was no sole reason for exiting the great depression, but many, of which the war was the biggest one of course. But several of Roosevelts policies worked, but of course he did increase the state, he did regulate banks and markets, minimum wages etc. A libertarian would always hate that. Me as a social democrat will always tend to like it...

    If we are to try and have some common starting point perhaps? Íīve read some, although not much compared to you Iīm sure.
    Despise is the perfect word. FDR came along and elongated the depression by 7 plus years. December of 29 UE3 was at 9% in June of 30 it was at 5.9%, FDR comes into office and it never breaches below 10% again.





  12. #48

    Re: Canīt someone please stop Trump from tweeting??

    Quote Originally Posted by bossofataka View Post
    Well, despised would be a strong word, unless youīre a libertarian. All economists that Iīve read anything from that despise him are libertarian and despise practically any and everything that would even insinuate any intervention into the free market. Most of them also would be heavily influenced by von Mises or Friedman for example.

    There was no sole reason for exiting the great depression, but many, of which the war was the biggest one of course. But several of Roosevelts policies worked, but of course he did increase the state, he did regulate banks and markets, minimum wages etc. A libertarian would always hate that. Me as a social democrat will always tend to like it...

    If we are to try and have some common starting point perhaps? Íīve read some, although not much compared to you Iīm sure.
    I have to also contest. FDR had little to no positive impact on the economy, I know common knowledge says otherwise but look at the data. North of 10% UE3 all of his presidency until the war, says enough.





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