Prove to me that God doesn't exist

[blah3]

Ok, to heal us and defeat death. Is that all? Just want to make sure I'm understanding correctly.

Still not sure what you are driving at. Feels an awful lot like s quiz where if I don’t say something or leave something out you are going to say I contradicted myself of left something out. So I’m trying to keep it simple and cover the main purpose. Jesus restores humanity to fellowship with god. God became man so man can become like God (now please don’t take that as man can become literally like god)

[NCRAVEN]

Still not sure what you are driving at. Feels an awful lot like s quiz where if I don’t say something or leave something out you are going to say I contradicted myself of left something out. So I’m trying to keep it simple and cover the main purpose. Jesus restores humanity to fellowship with god. God became man so man can become like God (now please don’t take that as man can become literally like god)

Haha, no it's not a quiz and I'm not trying to set you up. It seems like your leaving something out, so I was asking if there was more or not.

[Ortizer]

So, I said there are a lot of parallels....and you say no, because of 1 difference.

Got it.

I've been reading along because I find the topic really interesting.

I have to agree with Wicked. There seems like a lot of parallels.

Late to this party, but this actually sells genesis for me. Up to tower of babel, everyone was running off the same playbook according to the Bible, so it would stand to reason after they were separated and continued to develop, they would reference similar stories and characters.

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[Ortizer]

Maybe. I personally find them both equally appalling. I also find fanatics to be appalling.

I get that you ( not You NC) love your religion and whatnot. But don’t force it on me or do evil things in the name of it.

Terrorism is evil. But so is drowning someone you believe to be a witch.


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Fwiw, the crusades were in response to the Byzantine empire requesting assistance when Muslim armies invaded their territory.

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[Ortizer]

If you can’t see it I can’t explain it to you. You read the verses and it’s clear that Paul believed he was not eternally saved on the road to Damascus.
Read Titus 1:1-2. Paul hoping to achieve eternal life.
Again I have little faith I can get you to understand because you seem of a very Lutheran mindset.

In the Timothy passage it sounds like he is saying he completed the race by keeping the faith, not through other works.

Additionally, the way we tend to use hope in the 21st century, and the way they use it in the Bible is incongruous. They tend to refer to salvation as the hope they have in Christ. He gives us hope for eternity because of his death. Not as uncertainty that they will be saved.

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[Ortizer]

This is kinda the “Catholic Mobster “ mentality to religion. I can do whatever I want Monday -Saturday as long as I go to church on Sunday , lay a fat note in the plate and maybe confess a few hundred times and say some hail Mary’s. Lol.

Also it’s kinda the 11th hour theory. “I’ll accept Jesus as my lord and savior “ right before you die. So you’ve been a shithead for your entire life and now with no time left you “seek his love and forgiveness “ and all is well and you go to Heaven!


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But God can read your heart. You can have your come to Jesus moment late, but it still has to be sincere.

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[Ortizer]

Justification is not the end. Again that is a western understanding about guilt being washed away.
I don’t think of it as guilt but sickness. Justification starts the healing allowing us to begin our journey towards god, build the relationship with him.

A good explanation I saw is if you look at sin as a prison, acceptance of Christ opens your cell, but you still have to choose to walk out into freedom.

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[Ortizer]

Nc tried to reply in private message but your apparently at maximum storage.
Here’s the reply to last message
So I managed to hit the highlights. I find this common among once saved always saved pastors. When they realize that once saved always saved comes in conflict with what the Bible is actually saying, then they come up with non biblical justification to make it work. ‘Well if they don’t go on believing well it wasn’t real faith’. By that logic those ‘really’ saved should be during the lords work all the time. We know that’s not the case.

Seems like Jesus says that himself though, with the parable of the tares for example.

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[Ortizer]

I am taking him at his word, he said not a Christian. And according to Jesus he never truly/really was.

Goes back to the parable of the sower. The seed that falls in shallow ground I think?

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[Ortizer]

Ok first, that Philippians quote is Paul having confidence that church members will continue on. It does not say that no one can walk away.

You are correct that our positions can’t be reconciled. But I really think a deeper understanding is all you need. You have a part down, a very important part, but there is more.

I don’t think it’s fair to say they didn’t really believe. Did Adam and Eve not really believe in the lord when they let other voices sway them?

At the very least, they put their faith outside of him when they disobeyed.

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[Ortizer]

I forgot... I just read this one this morning and I think it answer both of these points.

Matthew 13 New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Sower
13 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.

“Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

Missed you had posted this already. Good call.

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[NCRAVEN]

A good explanation I saw is if you look at sin as a prison, acceptance of Christ opens your cell, but you still have to choose to walk out into freedom.

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Saw a good talk by Voddie Baucham called The World, The Flesh and The Devil. It’s on YouTube and it’s really interesting. He’s giving a Calvinist view and is talking about Ephesians 2 where Paul says “As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins”. Anyway he was giving the analogy of drowning and someone throwing you a life preserver and says “ you gotta grab it” then says... but dead men don’t grab.

Pretty interesting if you ever get time to watch it