Great In-depth Article on Lamar

[edromeo]

Is that why Seattle didn’t pass a lot?
Is that why the Saints have become more balanced over the years?
Is that why the Packers have made an effort to improve their run game?

The object is to win games.
The goal has never been to win games via a high volume passing attempts.
Last year they had a high volume passing attack with Joe.
That passing attack wasn’t enough to win.

Why on earth would they abandon the dominant run threat that Lamar creates in order to have a high volume passing offense?
The high volume passing offense wasn’t working with a veteran SB MVP QB.
If they’re trying to win games it would have made 0 sense to have a high volume passing offense. None.

Unless they weren’t trying win games.

[The Excellector]

Is that why Seattle didn’t pass a lot?
Is that why the Saints have become more balanced over the years?
Is that why the Packers have made an effort to improve their run game?

The object is to win games.
The goal has never been to win games via a high volume passing attempts.
Last year they had a high volume passing attack with Joe.
That passing attack wasn’t enough to win.

Why on earth would they abandon the dominant run threat that Lamar creates in order to have a high volume passing offense?
The high volume passing offense wasn’t working with a veteran SB MVP QB.
If they’re trying to win games it would have made 0 sense to have a high volume passing offense. None.

Unless they weren’t trying win games.

You went through all of that, to once again go away from my original point.

Most NFL Head Coaches, try to limit the passing attempts of their rookie QBs, because they tend to become more exposed as their passing attempts rise in number. The vast majority of the eight Quarterbacks listed were placed in situations where they didn’t have a strong defense to rely on, let alone strong teams overall. As a result, they were forced to throw far more than their coaches wanted.

Lamar Jackson was able to come in and not have to worry about throwing 30 times a game or scoring 30 points a game. The Ravens were able to be more selective with when they let him throw. If Lamar Jackson, as a rookie, were asked to throw as much as the other QBs on that list (Save one), I don’t believe that the original statement made by the guy making the original point, would have remained true. I believe that he intentionally chose 150 attempts, as it was the lowest amount that Lamar would qualify for, and he did nothing to acknowledge that several of the QBs he listed were forced to throw three times as much as Lamar did.

[RevBarnes]

This has probably already been posted but just in case it hasn't... more reason to believe that Lamar could lead us for the next decade.

https://www.baltimoreravens.com/news...-lamar-jackson

[edromeo]

You went through all of that, to once again go away from my original point.

Most NFL Head Coaches, try to limit the passing attempts of their rookie QBs, because they tend to become more exposed as their passing attempts rise in number.

I don't want to quibble too much here. I would agree that in general coaches try to limit their rookie QBs passing attempts; and as you rightly point out the phenomena of limiting a rookie QBs passing attempts isn't unique to Lamar its just smart.

Lamar Jackson was able to come in and not have to worry about throwing 30 times a game or scoring 30 points a game. The Ravens were able to be more selective with when they let him throw.

Here is the critical point. Lamar wasn't magically placed into a situation where he didn't have to worry about throwing 30 times a game. Lamar creates the circumstances that allow him not to throw 30 times a game. Knowing that teams, like you said before limit their rookie QBs passing attempts, and knowing that Lamar creates a situation where he didn't need to throw 30 times a game.....then why lament over the circumstances and down Lamar/Ravens for low passing attempts volume when you know that is the aim most team's have for their rookie QB?

[The Excellector]

I don't want to quibble too much here. I would agree that in general coaches try to limit their rookie QBs passing attempts; and as you rightly point out the phenomena of limiting a rookie QBs passing attempts isn't unique to Lamar its just smart.

Here is the critical point. Lamar wasn't magically placed into a situation where he didn't have to worry about throwing 30 times a game. Lamar creates the circumstances that allow him not to throw 30 times a game. Knowing that teams, like you said before limit their rookie QBs passing attempts, and knowing that Lamar creates a situation where he didn't need to throw 30 times a game.....then why lament over the circumstances and down Lamar/Ravens for low passing attempts volume when you know that is the aim most team's have for their rookie QB?

Smh. If the Ravens defense wasn't the number one defense in the league, Lamar would not have been able to get away with that. None of the eight QBs on the list provided, had a defense of that caliber. They had to score more and spend far more time playing from behind. Without that defense to lean on, the team's redzone issues would have come back to bite them.

Furthermore, I'm not even saying that it was a bad thing. ALL I'm saying is that the original post I quoted (With the list) is disingenuous, because it was sorely lacking in context. This was not about the strategy leading to wins. This was not about the strategy being right or wrong. This is all stuff that you brought into it after the fact. All this was ever about was the lack of context in the list provided.

[edromeo]

Smh. If the Ravens defense wasn't the number one defense in the league, Lamar would not have been able to get away with that. None of the eight QBs on the list provided, had a defense of that caliber. They had to score more and spend far more time playing from behind. Without that defense to lean on, the team's redzone issues would have come back to bite them.

Furthermore, I'm not even saying that it was a bad thing. ALL I'm saying is that the original post I quoted (With the list) is disingenuous, because it was sorely lacking in context. This was not about the strategy leading to wins. This was not about the strategy being right or wrong. This is all stuff that you brought into it after the fact. All this was ever about was the lack of context in the list provided.

Actually no, you brought in all this other stuff. I just disagree with your reasoning and offered counter points but again I don’t want to quibble.

You’re diminishing Lamar’s impact though. Joe had the same defense and was still throwing the ball a ton.
When you say the defense afforded Lamar the opportunity to limit the passing attempts you’re selling Lamar’s impact on the running game short.

[The Excellector]

Actually no, you brought in all this other stuff. I just disagree with your reasoning and offered counter points but again I don’t want to quibble.

You’re diminishing Lamar’s impact though. Joe had the same defense and was still throwing the ball a ton.
When you say the defense afforded Lamar the opportunity to limit the passing attempts you’re selling Lamar’s impact on the running game short.

*Facepalm*......... did the eight QBs on the original list have the opportunity to throw as little as Lamar did? You keep going into other stuff.

This is not about the who what and why of Lamar throwing as much as he did.

My original point is that, he did not have to throw nearly as much as the other QBs on that list did and there’s a clear general understanding that coaches try to limit the passing attempts of a rookie QB, because they tend to be more exposed the more they are asked to throw. Jackson wasn’t exposed nearly as much the eight guys on that list, but the guy who brought up the stat and the list of names, along with the specific minimum attempts, does nothing to touch on that context. Thus, the statistical scenario is cherry-picked. Very much so.

[JimZipCode]

*Facepalm*......... did the eight QBs on the original list have the opportunity to throw as little as Lamar did?

Alex Smith threw even less. Another one, I forget which, threw only 5 or 10 more.

[edromeo]

The author doesn’t need the context because it’s a readily understood and accepted viewpoint.

You were trying,in vain, to diminish Lamar’s rookie season because of attempts per game but you also admit that limiting a rookies QBs attempts is a smart goal for a team.

[The Excellector]

The author doesn’t need the context because it’s a readily understood and accepted viewpoint.

You were trying,in vain, to diminish Lamar’s rookie season because of attempts per game but you also admit that limiting a rookies QBs attempts is a smart goal for a team.

I’m not trying to diminish his season. I was trying to diminish the comparison. Comparing a guy who only threw 170 times in 7 starts to a guy who threw over 500 times in 16 starts.

Yes, it’s smart, but that’s my point. It’s smart, but the other QBs on that list weren’t able to throw as little. Yet, he posts the list as if all of the QBs on the list are close in passing attempts.

My issue is the list, not Lamar’s rookie season.

You keep going on about whether or not it was right for Lamar. It was never about that. It was about the context of the list and it’s disingenuous nature. I brought up how coaches handle rookie QBs, to illustrate what usually happens when they aren’t able to handle rookie QBs that way. Hence, why it’s not fair to compare a rookie QB who was able to be handled that way, FOR WHATEVER REASON, to a rookie QB who threw the ball over 500 times.

[edromeo]

Adding context doesn’t make a comparison unfair.

Also, if you aren’t trying to diminish Lamars rookie season then why obsessively point out context that sled

[Ortizer]

If you're initial comparison were to hypothetically ring true, it would imply that had they only thrown as much as he did, their numbers would be even better than they would over the length of so many attempts. There is a reason why we limited Lamar Jackson's attempts. There's a reason why teams have historically tried to minimize a rookie QB's attempts. It's the same reason why I take issue with the information I quoted. The numbers may hold up, this year, but he'd no longer be a rookie. You'd then have to look into the second years of other players and the circumstances surrounding them as well.

I just didn't like lumping a bunch of names together, so sorely lacking in context. None of us believe that if Lamar Jackson were asked to throw 500 times in his rookie season, that his numbers would look as good as they do at 170.

Why not?

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