Vedvik Trade Value

**HotInHere** · 08-09-2019, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by moose10101

Not sure where you’re getting those stats. Koch punted once, Vedvik twice.

Crap. Totally my bad. I have no idea what box score I pulled up, but it clearly wasn’t the right one.

I didn’t think there was any way we punted seven times, but obviously I did not look closely enough. I really wasn’t ever watching the punters, I was watching the gunners.

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**BigPlayReceiver** · 08-09-2019, 11:19 AM

If I'm Ryan Pace in CHI, I'd happily slide a 5th over, if I'm convinced KV gets me +2 wins.
Norway to Kansas to West Virginia, he'll be good with inclement/cold weather too.

**ravensfan7716** · 08-09-2019, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Koch is a surgeon. He can place a ball like no other punter. Harbaugh loves him and they don't need the cap space. He's staying.

I could see a 6th for Vedvik which is pretty good for a kicker or punter

Didn't the newly appointed GM say one of his #1 goals was fixing this teams cap & contract situation?

Right now the Ravens have the highest cap spending in the league among (kicker/punter/LS) at 11 million, which is double what league average is of 5.4 million.

I think Sam Koch is the best in the league currently, but its not out of the realm for a GM to consider (youth, talent & cap spending) in the decision to let go of an aging 36 year old punter who on this roster yields the 11th highest cap number this year.

He is earning a lot of money for a punter.

**The Excellector** · 08-09-2019, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by ravensfan7716

Didn't the newly appointed GM say one of his #1 goals was fixing this teams cap & contract situation?

Right now the Ravens have the highest cap spending in the league among (kicker/punter/LS) at 11 million, which is double what league average is of 5.4 million.

I think Sam Koch is the best in the league currently, but its not out of the realm for a GM to consider (youth, talent & cap spending) in the decision to let go of an aging 36 year old punter who on this roster yields the 11th highest cap number this year.

He is earning a lot of money for a punter.

I think I get where you’re coming from, but they’re getting their money’s worth from those spots. There’s plenty of spots where they aren’t getting their money’s worth I would think he’ll deal with first.

He has been here long enough to know what happens when this team tries to cut cost on effective Special Teams.

**Mark** · 08-09-2019, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Koch is a surgeon. He can place a ball like no other punter. Harbaugh loves him and they don't need the cap space. He's staying.

I could see a 6th for Vedvik which is pretty good for a kicker or punter

I’m hoping for a scenario for no worse than a 5th which would also include one of our tough final cuts: Willis, Canady, Ricard etc. Also, if the Packers are interested, there is even more reason for the Bears to use a 5th to prevent a repeat of last year

**guymf4** · 08-09-2019, 12:32 PM

Since I'm the one saying 4th rounder, I'll make my case. Also, I'll be ignoring the idea of keeping him because it's been covered.

1)Drafting a kicker as high as the 5th is not unprecedented. See the 16 names below that have been drafted 5th or higher since 200. That's almost 1 per year.

2) The rule change where extra points got moved back has led to an increased value in the kicking position that has yet to be incorporated into their trade and salary levels league wide. Teams literally lost games due to missed extra points and the number of overtime misses for the win was crazy last year. Kicking was determining records for teams that were in the playoff hunt. Like Steelers.

3) Most teams don't value their 5th rounders like we do. We view them as opportunities for our exceptional FO to find diamonds in the rough. They view it as a chance to get a backup or a JAG.

4) The 'Win Now' mentality is strong in lots of teams where jobs are on the line. If a kicker can make the difference in 1 game vs a 4th rounder that might benefit the guy hired after me, lots of these coaches and GMs will take the benefit now. Chicago is one of these teams.

5) Drafting a kicker is risky. Of the last 3 drafted I think only 1 is with their team. Carlson was dropped after missing a kick with the Vikings. He ended up in Oakland. Aguayo was released too. So teams value kickers but they prefer proven commodities when available. Our own billy cundiff, who lost us the AFCCG to the Patriots, with one of the best teams we ever had, is a reminder of what it's like without a top notch justin tucker. He went on to the CFL and is somewhere in the league today. Regardless, other teams don't find Justin Tucker's like we do. We're historically a special teams machine like Pittsburgh is for wide receivers.

6) Vedvik was already impressing last year. I believe he will continue to impress this year and has the talent to be a top 5 kicker in the league. The dude is huge and it appears he has the accuracy. Preseason will let him become a much more known commodity vs the team's that are considering veterans that are currently kicking in their back yards or single day tryouts. He will easily be considered the best kicker not on a guaranteed roster spot, and valued above some guy out of college

7) the dual kicker / punter factor is appealing, especially to teams before the cut down to 53 in that it saves a guy from hitting waivers or PS. Lots of teams will live that this time of year, and he'll probably be an upgrade for most of those teams in both positions.

8) He's got the Ravens stamp on him. People know he's been working with two of the best in the game. That's a hell of a lot better than a year in the CFL for experience.

All those factors combined make me think he will go slightly higher than the 5th round premium you'd expect for a sought after kicker. It's an evolving market that I think is going to improve for kickers in general, let alone someone this good.

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**Valhain** · 08-09-2019, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by ravensfan7716

Didn't the newly appointed GM say one of his #1 goals was fixing this teams cap & contract situation?

Right now the Ravens have the highest cap spending in the league among (kicker/punter/LS) at 11 million, which is double what league average is of 5.4 million.

I think Sam Koch is the best in the league currently, but its not out of the realm for a GM to consider (youth, talent & cap spending) in the decision to let go of an aging 36 year old punter who on this roster yields the 11th highest cap number this year.

He is earning a lot of money for a punter.

I'm not entirely sold on the cap savings bit and we'll have a lot more cap space next year. However, how long can Koch keep playing? 5-6 years at most? If they think Vedvik can be that good it is worth considering.

Not that I think they will mind. EDC will most likely take the pick.

**Tucker: M&T Sec 527** · 08-09-2019, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Continuity Steve

I see no reason why Koch can’t punt until 40, or whenever he decides to hang them up. His whole game is precision and pinning people back. That doesn’t go away as quickly as raw power.

Folks, you will recall that Koch is or #3 QB

if McSorley doesn't make the 53 man roster ( and he won't look for him on PS).

**Unibomber** · 08-09-2019, 06:04 PM

Vedvik is easily worth a 4th to a team without a passable kicker. 55 yard kicks in the preseason translate to the regular season.

**jonboy79** · 08-09-2019, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by Unibomber

Vedvik is easily worth a 4th to a team without a passable kicker. 55 yard kicks in the preseason translate to the regular season.

You have got to be kidding. Where is the precedence for kicker or punter getting traded for a 4th round pick one year after a life threatening head injury mere months after going undrafted... ...

**GOTA** · 08-09-2019, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by HotInHere

Question for the experts out there: would a team that trades for Vedvik control his rights for longer than if he were outright released by the Ravens and they signed him as a free agent?

Everyone in the league knows Vedvik is not going to be on the Ravens roster this year. (Barring the Koch scenario, in which case all of this is moot.) So there are two possible reasons to give up anything to get him. One is the question I asked above. And two is to avoid having to bid against other teams on the FA market. This is similar to the Boldin of Flacco situation, when everyone knew he was going to the player was going to be let go but they gave up a low pick just to avoid having to bid on the open market.

Based on #2 since I'm not sure about #1, I can't see any way Vedvik is worth more than a 7th or conditional 6th.

Vedvik has no service time. He's never even made it to a regular season game. Wouldn't that mean that if he was cut or traded he'd still be in the same exact place. I guess that he could sign a 1 year deal if he was cut but no team is going to do that. Right now he has a 3 year deal with a $4,000 bonus. If he was cut some team would pay more of a bonus but mostly it would be base salary so if he flopped there would be little cap impact. There is just not reason for him to agree to a 1 year deal or for a team to even offer it.

**GOTA** · 08-09-2019, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by Unibomber

Vedvik is easily worth a 4th to a team without a passable kicker. 55 yard kicks in the preseason translate to the regular season.

How many kickers in NFL history have ever been traded for a pick that high?

The highest pick ever traded for a kicker was a 5th round pick. The Chiefs traded for Dolphins kicker Pete Stoyanovich. At the time Stoyanovich had been in the NFL for 7 years and had been a 1st team All Pro. Vedvick has been in the league for 0 games. We're not getting the best trade of all time for someone with no history.