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  1. #1

    Recent Mass Shootings

    I saw that another thread started to get this conversation going so I thought I would start one specific to that topic:

    I liked a post someone had about what is causing this. It is a breakdown of the family unit. I'm not saying that all kids of a divorced family are going on shooting sprees, but if both parents are too self-involved, then yeah... it is a contributing factor. Sometimes marriages don't work out, but a kid is involved, and it's a tough situation. I've seen a lot of kids in my day that I was friends with where both parents acted like parents and provided, and cared for their kid, and they ended up normal (albeit some relationship issues later in life). I've also seen deadbeat parents where the Dad splits never to be seen from again, and the Mom is just openly bashing the dad and being resentful of the child.... THAT kid ends up angry and messed up.

    There is no policy but we do need to pull back on celebrating single moms. I hate that because there are ones that achieve a lot and do good by their kid... but our media has gone full tilt on celebrating ALL single moms. That's wrong. A lot of them are not cause for celebration, and it is creating a bad narrative to impressionable children who see the family unit as not being as good as just an AWESOME single mom. This article isn't the best, but it does point out the massive increases in children born out of wedlock. We can debate the reasons WHY, but it is dramatically increasing: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...-91-story.html

    Also, if we are looking at policy... we need to audit the hell out of the FDA and retool that entire department. They are the cause of prescription drugs both being not affordable, and pushing terrible drugs into the market based purely on kickbacks they receive. We currently have an out of control opiod epidemic on our hands, and the FDA had been clearing these drugs for decades with full knowledge of the risk. We look at psychotropic drug use among children with ADHD, and other "illnesses" and see that children are being inundated with SOME form of these drugs. A friend of mine has a child on ADHD meds and has attempted suicide twice now. Growing up, a kid was on Ritalin, and hung himself in his closet because his grandma yelled at him for having a dirty room. Another friend of mine who has a kid in high school said that kids almost identify more by which drugs they are on than they do what sports or interests they have, and that cafeterias, they all sit around and trade meds for fun.

    With exceptions... most of these shooters are under 30, and highly medicated on these drugs. This falls right in the wheelhouse of EXACTLY what I'm saying. There is a breakdown of culture in the US and the media is telling everyone it's not only okay.... but needs to be celebrated! They did a fluff piece on a 9 year old boy dressing like a woman and doing erotic dancing at a club, and acted like those parents should be celebrated for letting their boy live "his truth". No... that boy needs to have real parents saying that it is inappropriate.

    We have a lot of problems, we need to start with the FDA on a governmental level and find out what they hell they are doing over there. We need re-education of our inner-city psychiatrists and regulate these pills getting in the hands of kids. We need a cultural shift in media that starts actually showing consequences of destructive behavior and stop pushing the victim card. They keep saying that transgendered people are killing themselves at the highest levels. Their suicide rate has increased over the past 10 years despite the fact that we have become a more open society which pretty much means their concept that it is "bullying" that is causing this is trash. It's because we aren't treating a mental illness, and telling someone that they can be whoever they want, when the reality is... we cannot be whoever we want. I cannot be a dinosaur any more than I can be a woman.

    We have normalized insanity, rewarded bad behavior, over-medicated children with no attention paid to any side-affects, and allowed the FDA to get rich in the process of pushing drugs on the market that should have never been allowed... those are the root problems.
    "Always remember that you are absolutely unique. Just like everyone else." -Margaret Mead





  2. #2

    Re: Recent Mass Shootings

    President Trump instructed the DOJ to propose legislation for those who commit hate crime mass murders to receive the death penalty.

    He also called for “red flag” laws to disarm dangerous individuals with “rapid due process?" I don't like that at all. Red flag Laws it means they get to choose who’s a threat and who isn’t...

    There’s no due process here.

    Not good.
    Last edited by ravenmaniac4life; 08-05-2019 at 10:57 AM.





  3. #3
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    Re: Recent Mass Shootings

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmaniac4life View Post
    President Trump instructed the DOJ to propose legislation for those who commit hate crime mass murders to receive the death penalty.

    He also called for “red flag” laws to disarm dangerous individuals with “rapid due process?" I don't like that at all. Red flag Laws it means they get to choose who’s a threat and who isn’t...

    There’s no due process here.

    Not good.
    I don't have a problem with it as long as there really is due process. The problem I had with the comments were getting programs/software to look for red flags.... who gets to determine the criteria for that?

    At the end of the day, I don't think any new legislation will come from this.





  4. #4

    Re: Recent Mass Shootings

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    I don't have a problem with it as long as there really is due process. The problem I had with the comments were getting programs/software to look for red flags.... who gets to determine the criteria for that?

    At the end of the day, I don't think any new legislation will come from this.
    I think that there needs to be harder penalties for illegal gun possession. It needs to be treated like drugs, where not only do you arrest the person, but you find out where they got it and arrest that person, and find out where illegal guns are coming from. If you have a gun stolen from your house, you should have a fine for not properly caring for a firearm. The problem isn't guns in general... it is that people who should NEVER have a gun get them illegally. This kid in OH was apparently arrested for making a "hit list" and threatening to commit a shooting. He's done... he has forfeited his rights to gun ownership for the rest of his life, and if he gets caught with one... adios kiddo... you're going to the pokey for a long time.

    I'm cool with those types of laws. I am NOT cool with some sort of unambiguous set of rules where we may or may not be able to ever buy a gun because some data indicates that we shouldn't. "Red Flags" is too ambiguous.... it needs to be based on law. The government cannot, and should not, be the society/social interaction police. I explicitly said in my first post that we cannot solve social issues by government. I think this is bad policy and it has always been one of Trump's non-conservative stances. He had been a NY Liberal for decades... and he's not a 2nd Amendment guy at all.
    "Always remember that you are absolutely unique. Just like everyone else." -Margaret Mead





  5. #5
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    Re: Recent Mass Shootings

    Quote Originally Posted by DitkasSausage View Post
    I think that there needs to be harder penalties for illegal gun possession. It needs to be treated like drugs, where not only do you arrest the person, but you find out where they got it and arrest that person, and find out where illegal guns are coming from. If you have a gun stolen from your house, you should have a fine for not properly caring for a firearm. The problem isn't guns in general... it is that people who should NEVER have a gun get them illegally. This kid in OH was apparently arrested for making a "hit list" and threatening to commit a shooting. He's done... he has forfeited his rights to gun ownership for the rest of his life, and if he gets caught with one... adios kiddo... you're going to the pokey for a long time.
    I think they do have those types of laws in most states.

    Quote Originally Posted by DitkasSausage View Post
    I'm cool with those types of laws. I am NOT cool with some sort of unambiguous set of rules where we may or may not be able to ever buy a gun because some data indicates that we shouldn't. "Red Flags" is too ambiguous.... it needs to be based on law. The government cannot, and should not, be the society/social interaction police. I explicitly said in my first post that we cannot solve social issues by government. I think this is bad policy and it has always been one of Trump's non-conservative stances. He had been a NY Liberal for decades... and he's not a 2nd Amendment guy at all.
    Agreed. I'm not putting too much in what he said today as it was a very simple address about what just happened. Once they get into the actual process of deciding what happens, I'm not sure it goes anywhere.





  6. #6
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    Re: Recent Mass Shootings

    It may end up being an addendum to HIPAA statutes. If someone is put on certain medications for mental illness, rather than being barred by HIPAA, that information might be useful for background checks, etc. Maybe no details are provided? But, if someone is receiving that kind of treatment, then maybe they get the "red flag" for any potential firearm purchases.

    As a side note, I also think it would be prudent to prosecute any gun owner who's firearm was not properly stowed and used in a shooting/crime. Owning a weapon that can take another's life is a HUGE responsibility and one that I know a lot of people in this country respect a great deal. However, I also know a lot of folks that just have a loaded pistol in their unlocked drawer beside their bed. Or a loaded weapon sitting in a closet or something.

    For example, the kid from the Sandyhook shooting had direct access to his aunt's firearms that were basically out in the open in her house. Now, I'm sure she never thought that he'd do what he did, but had she properly stored her weapons, he may not have done what he did. Or, at the very least, he may have had a much more difficult time getting access to any weapons.
    Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.





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    Re: Recent Mass Shootings

    Everything you described exists in virtually every other developed country, as do the popular Republican talking points any time there is a shooting such as video games and mental health problems. None of these things are a uniquely American issue. Yet we are the only country where this is a routine occurrence...

    I am not a gun control guy in terms of a ban, I own several, but laws absolutely need to be tightened up. I'm fine with addressing it by going after the mental health angle. Make it so if you are on or have been on anti-psychotic drugs you can not own a weapon (maybe this already exists?). If you are taking medication for depression, you can not own a weapon. And so on and so forth. The point is actually fucking do something about it. If people think the problem is a mental health issue, stop people who have been diagnosed with such problems from being able to easily obtain weapons.

    Every time this happens politicians always deflect blame from the guns to something else and that's fine - but you have to actually follow up on that with some sort of legislation to address it. Never happens. Instead, we forget about it for the days, week, month or so until it happens again, everyone rages about mental health or whatever the choice excuse is that time, nothing happens in Washington, and the cycle repeats. I do give Trump a ton of credit for actually taking action against bump stocks following Vegas. I don't praise him much but I will for that. He said he was going to take care of it and he did. Now it needs to happen again.
    back on twitter

    "Well that was an appropriate last ride for Pees. A Bengals WR streaking in for a game winning touchdown in the closing minutes is the man’s preferred medium to express his art." - GreenWave52





  8. #8
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    Re: Recent Mass Shootings

    The hard part with mental health being a "red flag" is that there are people that take their anti-depressants, or other medication, and are perfectly normal when they do. I dont think they should just lose the right to own because theyre diagnosed. especially when many more go undiagnosed. id like them to follow up with their Dr's, to make sure theyre staying on the medication and of sound mind. that could be a pain since some of these Drs already take months to get back to you, so im not sure how that system would best work.
    Last edited by JAB1985; 08-05-2019 at 02:54 PM.
    -JAB





  9. #9

    Re: Recent Mass Shootings

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhcforlife View Post
    Everything you described exists in virtually every other developed country, as do the popular Republican talking points any time there is a shooting such as video games and mental health problems. None of these things are a uniquely American issue. Yet we are the only country where this is a routine occurrence...

    I am not a gun control guy in terms of a ban, I own several, but laws absolutely need to be tightened up. I'm fine with addressing it by going after the mental health angle. Make it so if you are on or have been on anti-psychotic drugs you can not own a weapon (maybe this already exists?). If you are taking medication for depression, you can not own a weapon. And so on and so forth. The point is actually fucking do something about it. If people think the problem is a mental health issue, stop people who have been diagnosed with such problems from being able to easily obtain weapons.

    Every time this happens politicians always deflect blame from the guns to something else and that's fine - but you have to actually follow up on that with some sort of legislation to address it. Never happens. Instead, we forget about it for the days, week, month or so until it happens again, everyone rages about mental health or whatever the choice excuse is that time, nothing happens in Washington, and the cycle repeats. I do give Trump a ton of credit for actually taking action against bump stocks following Vegas. I don't praise him much but I will for that. He said he was going to take care of it and he did. Now it needs to happen again.
    Well two things. This does happen in other countries. If we take out the inner-city gang killings/shootings, it actually happens much more frequently in other countries. We get numbers like, "There have been 3,000 mass shootings in the last 10 years!!!" When you break down those statistics, most of them are incidents where a drive happened and more than one person was injured... if you look at scenarios where it is 3 or more people killed by a lone gunman in a public space, that number drops to dozens... which is still too many.

    I also agree that politicians run around and point fingers and make platitudes of what they think should be done, and nothing gets done. Part of it is here: Democrats say we need to ban 'military style weapons' which is a nonsensical term. An AR-15 is a meaner looking version of a .30-06, which is the most popular deer hunting rifle. In fact, the rifling of a .30-06 is meant for longer range shots, and the bullet exits much faster, so it conceivably can cause more damage... it just looks like a hunting rifle, and not as scary looking...
    Republicans say we need to address the root causes of mass shootings, namely from the mental illness, family value stance. I agree with this. So they propose legislation, and Rhino's and Democrats sit on it because it doesn't ban guns.

    As for your scenario where a person gets diagnosed with depression, and cannot buy future guns. Hows that work? It is a matter of opinion if someone is depressed... there is some science behind it, but at the end of the day, doctors of psychology don't always agree on diagnoses. There is no numbers or scan to prove someone is depressed. It's not like cancer... it is undetectable. So based on an opinion, you won't be able to buy a gun... but what about the guns they might own? Do we confiscate? Pretty slippery little slope there. So I have a bunch of guns and am an avid hunter. If my wife dies, and I go to a psychologist to talk about my feelings, and they send a red flag to the government that they have diagnosed me as depressed, can federal agents come take my guns? That would suck... here I am depressed and all I want to do is go out in a field with my dog and hunt some quail to get my mind off of things, and I can't because the government and some half-trained doctor says I can't?

    Also, we would then have to have Psychologists list their political leanings in the future. What if there is an anti-gun progressive liberal who just sends that diagnosis up for every patient that says they have guns. That is NOT EVEN CLOSE to far fetched seeing how we have judges doing the exact same thing in this country right now.
    "Always remember that you are absolutely unique. Just like everyone else." -Margaret Mead





  10. #10
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    Re: Recent Mass Shootings

    Going all the way to depression may be too far. I suffer from depression myself and know it can be pretty mild at times. But if you are bipolar or schizophrenic or one of these other mental disorders that literally can not be cured, I am 100% fine with you not being able to own a weapon. Again, I don't know if that's currently a law or not but it should be if it isn't. I do not care what you are like on your medicines because there's no way to guarantee someone is taking their medicine daily.
    back on twitter

    "Well that was an appropriate last ride for Pees. A Bengals WR streaking in for a game winning touchdown in the closing minutes is the man’s preferred medium to express his art." - GreenWave52





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    Re: Recent Mass Shootings

    Quote Originally Posted by DitkasSausage View Post
    If we take out the inner-city gang killings/shootings, it actually happens much more frequently in other countries.
    Sources please.





  12. #12
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    Re: Recent Mass Shootings

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    The hard part with mental health being a "red flag" is that there are people that take their anti-depressants, or other medication, and are perfectly normal when they do. I dont think they should just lose the right to own because theyre diagnosed. especially when many more go diagnosed. id like them to follow up with their Dr's, to make sure theyre staying on the medication and of sound mind. that could be a pain since some of these Drs already take months to get back to you, so im not sure how that system would best work.
    That's definitely the tough part.
    Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.





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