Recent Mass Shootings

[blah3]

That’s part of the problem. We have to shake the “ not my kid “ montra. It is your kid. So what. Get him/ her the help they need. That doesn’t make you a bad parent or them a bad kid.

We live in one of the most developed nations in the world and the answer to every problem is “make tougher or more laws “. Nope! How bout we look at the cause of these problems and work towards a solution.
We can put men on the moon but we can’t treat mental illness???? Holy shit.
Why are we so fragile as a society that just because little Johnny isn’t like Blake or Bruce or whoever that we have to deny it? So your kid has special needs. So what? I would think if you truly loved them you’d want them to get all the help they can.



** not meaning you per se in any comment. **


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Yeah but that’s all part of societal rot.

[NCRAVEN]

To me it’s implied. Maybe I’m wrong since I’m 100% on the Right side of this fence.


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Yeah, I don't see how. Since like you said it's almost ALWAYS a middle class white kid.

[ravenmaniac4life]

Here’s something else. It’s easy to say it’s because of the change / lack of the “traditional American family” or say we need church and other things like in the 50’s. Or it’s their “environment “ that makes these kids do this.

Really?? Last I checked almost 100% of the people doing “mass shootings” in this country are Middle Class White People /kids. Most have a “traditional” home life I.e. mom and dad. Maybe they go to church maybe not. But that ain’t the answer. Believe me.

Ya know it is possible to have a "traditional" home life w/a married mom and dad and still have absentee parents who don't give a shit.

Kids from a violent / shitty environment and grow up with Broken homes aren’t doing this shit. Their too busy using drugs to kill random people at a mall , night club or concert. Or school for that matter.

I'd be interested to see information on what those kids' lives are like outside of the home. Those types of kids probably have a THRIVING social circle of other kids doing the same shit. They are probably satisfied w/their life in some capacity.

The kids shooting up schools and public places probably don't have a thriving social circle at all and they're left alone most of the time while drinking cheap vodka and listening to the Cure. I'd bet they aren't satisfied with their life at all.

Shit maybe this kid in Ohio was an Alter boy who was molested by a Priest? Where’s the church there?

Based on your prior posts about "church" and "religion"...I think you have a very misconstrued interpretation on what church is and it oddly seems to go back to catholicism for some reason.

A "church" by definition is a place of worship. A "church" community is one that teaches reverence, morality, respect, love, structure, and faith. Kids that grow up in this type of environment are better suited to become a "contributing member of society" once they become adults. THAT is the point about the church I was making.

[DitkasSausage]

That’s part of the problem. We have to shake the “ not my kid “ montra. It is your kid. So what. Get him/ her the help they need. That doesn’t make you a bad parent or them a bad kid.

We live in one of the most developed nations in the world and the answer to every problem is “make tougher or more laws “. Nope! How bout we look at the cause of these problems and work towards a solution.
We can put men on the moon but we can’t treat mental illness???? Holy shit.
Why are we so fragile as a society that just because little Johnny isn’t like Blake or Bruce or whoever that we have to deny it? So your kid has special needs. So what? I would think if you truly loved them you’d want them to get all the help they can.



** not meaning you per se in any comment. **


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But that is a cultural problem. It is luckily a culture quickly on the decline in suburban areas right now because it is insane. In my neighborhood, if I saw a kid doing something wrong (like pretty bad) I could grab them by the arm and take them right to their parents door and tell the parent. You know what the parent would do? They'd grab them by the other arm, bring them inside and spank the crap out of them. Why? Because it is effective and because it is FAR more likely your kid is a lying little a-hole than it is that a busy adult took time out of his day to yell at a kid for no reason.

We still have those parents in our neighborhood though, where their kids will throw rocks at your car, and the parents will be like, "Now Billy... did you do this?" The kid says no (because kids are all liars), and the parents are like, "Can you prove my little angel did this?" Every one of their kids are the little psychopaths in our neighborhood. There is one kid so bad that everyone in the neighborhood is trying to get them to move because he WILL be a mass shooter, and it is 100% the fault of the parents. Our buddy caught the kid throwing rocks at his dogs in the back yard, and went over and told the parents. The wife threatened to fight him for EVER saying something bad about her kid! Now, flash forward 3 years... the kid is a total sociopath. Everyone is afraid of him because it is a matter of time before he does something REALLY f'd up. You can see it in his eyes and the way he talks to adults.

So is there legislation that can fix crappy parents who have this idea that their kid is somehow infallible?

I agree with some of your points that these shooters are not all from broken homes, but a HUGE majority of them are on some form of emotional-altering drugs for deppression, anxiety, ADHD, or whatever.

[wickedsolo]

How?

The type of environment these kids are raised in is the ultimate factor in determining how they will turn out. Parenting is more important now than ever before because there are sooooooooooooooo many other influences that kids are exposed to than when most of us were growing up.

God. Family. Structure. Accountability. Respect. These are all things that used to be celebrated. Now, they are looked at unfavorably by "woke societal standards." THAT is definitely one of the changes in society in the last 20+ years.

And just being a male, in general, is looked down upon these days.


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[DitkasSausage]

And just being a male, in general, is looked down upon these days.


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I don't like how you assumed my gender purely based on my gender...

[bossofataka]

The point is that most of the statistics you see on the "ones you think about" as mass shootings in the US are exactly like the ones you described... family disputes, standoffs, things of that nature... our numbers are padded exactly like that as well. There has been what? 5-7 mass shootings this year that actually made the news? But then you see the media's figure and they state that there has been 250... that's insane. That would mean that there is a mass shooting every single day and some days two, and nobody ever questions that... the truth is we've had a handful, and were a nation of about 350mil people... That's about 73% of the entire population of the EU... Basically, if you removed France and Belgium, we'd have the same population. On top of which, a VAST majority of the EU has very very strict gun control laws, and yet your shooting statistics are nearly the same across the board... In the US, it's NOT like everyone can get a gun like you hear on the news. In fact, every time the news in the US tries to show how easy it is, this happens: https://www.dailywire.com/news/21897...-ryan-saavedra

The other thing that stands out is that it IS true that you have less... but the ones you have are SO much worse. France & Belgium themselves in the last 5 years have nearly as many fatalities from gun violence via mass shooting than the US! The reason? Because when it happens in the EU, your only option is to be a victim and hide. In the US, the police dispatch most of the shooters... but a large percent are taken out by citizens.

Maybe it´s different over there, but no, I only refer to the "famous" ones (feels like a horrible choice of a word in this instance, but yeah..), I never thought of the stats or those high numbers youre mentioning. I mean these lone gunman in a school or synagogue or a bar etc only.

See these links for explanations of why this survey is so misleading:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/un...ath-shootings/

This guy hasn´t even gone into and checked the actual mass shootings either, so these family feuds etc I mentioned are still there.

https://econjwatch.org/File+download...f?mimetype=pdf

This is the response to Lott´s stats (which are the ones usually flown around to make the claim that US is no worse off then comparable countries).

Yes, we have much stricter laws for firearms, and no, our shooting stats doesn´t even get on the same planet as the US. Sweden actually have by far the worst of any western european country the last few years (gang related to almost 100%), 3-4 times higher than other comparable european countries, but yet nowhere near US no matter how you look at the stats.

US has like what, about 30 000 deaths by firearm per year? Of which 10 000-12000 are homicides? The whole EU has about 6500 of which about 1000 are homicides. With a larger population than the US. Now, I´m not out to bash the US, but you have a serious problem that isn´t the same in other countries comparable to you.

They´re not that much worse tbh. At all. Take away the Norway and the Paris attacks (the lattaer which I don´t think should be counted into this anyway) and you´d be hard pressed to find any with a victim rate that is even comparable to many of those in the US.
I don´t know what you´re refering to about Belgium? I have no memory of a recent mass shooting there at all?
So I have to disagree with your conclusion that it gets much worse here. In fact, I´m pretty sure that the Paris attacks, if carried out in the US, would be the same. 7 well prepared and heavily armed military trained fanatic terrorists? With the risk of sounding horrible, but if these lone outsider boys in some instances kill as many as they do, those terrorists probably would too. And take out that one and we barely have any mass shootings with 10+ fatalities. So I´m not buying that more guns would help, no.

But I´m also very interested in what causes this. Clearly, as you (and others that might read this..) might suspect, I´m pointing to the availibility of firearms. But even I don´t think it can be solely that. So what is it? I hear church and God, but then we´d be homicidial maniacs here in europe, especially in Scandinavia, considering how secularised we are and have been for a long time.
We have the same family structures as you, roughly the same or similar in most aspects, considering these individuals are rarely coming from extreme poverty but rather the middle class.
I know that when there were a couple of school shootings in Finland, they sort of "idolized" first the Columbine killers, then the copy cat the first shooter. That seems it was the case over there a bit too like 10-15 years ago, but I don´t hear that now really?

[Laxdad24]

Ya know it is possible to have a "traditional" home life w/a married mom and dad and still have absentee parents who don't give a shit.




I'd be interested to see information on what those kids' lives are like outside of the home. Those types of kids probably have a THRIVING social circle of other kids doing the same shit. They are probably satisfied w/their life in some capacity.

The kids shooting up schools and public places probably don't have a thriving social circle at all and they're left alone most of the time while drinking cheap vodka and listening to the Cure. I'd bet they aren't satisfied with their life at all.




Based on your prior posts about "church" and "religion"...I think you have a very misconstrued interpretation on what church is and it oddly seems to go back to catholicism for some reason.

A "church" by definition is a place of worship. A "church" community is one that teaches reverence, morality, respect, love, structure, and faith. Kids that grow up in this type of environment are better suited to become a "contributing member of society" once they become adults. THAT is the point about the church I was making.

Says any Muslim. Not so? To hell you say.
Let’s be real for a moment. Most ( I’d say close to 50% ) of White Americans are Catholic if they practice an organized religion. The other 50% is some other form of Christianity ( Baptist, Methodist, Prodasant, Mormon , what have you ). Ok maybe not the whole last 50% there are Jehovah’s and a few others mixed in. Now I might not be 100% but it’s close.


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[Laxdad24]

Ya know it is possible to have a "traditional" home life w/a married mom and dad and still have absentee parents who don't give a shit.




I'd be interested to see information on what those kids' lives are like outside of the home. Those types of kids probably have a THRIVING social circle of other kids doing the same shit. They are probably satisfied w/their life in some capacity.

The kids shooting up schools and public places probably don't have a thriving social circle at all and they're left alone most of the time while drinking cheap vodka and listening to the Cure. I'd bet they aren't satisfied with their life at all.




Based on your prior posts about "church" and "religion"...I think you have a very misconstrued interpretation on what church is and it oddly seems to go back to catholicism for some reason.

A "church" by definition is a place of worship. A "church" community is one that teaches reverence, morality, respect, love, structure, and faith. Kids that grow up in this type of environment are better suited to become a "contributing member of society" once they become adults. THAT is the point about the church I was making.

Now the first part I agree with. Although I doubt they listen to tThe Cure Lol.


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[wickedsolo]

Wicked .....who would “police” the storage of weapons? Who’s to say what’s proper? In my house I have both a pump shotgun and my .40cal stored not in my gun safe. All my children were educated about weapons safety , took firearms classes and respect what a weapon can do. So should I be on the “Red Flag “ list of gun owners?


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No, I'm not suggesting that you should be on a "red flag" list. However, if one of your kids uses your accessible weapon to commit a crime (which I sincerely hope that never happens), then I think the state should be able to go after you as well for improper storage. Like you said earlier in this thread regarding empowering schools because a lot of parents can't always "see" it when their kids are shitheads. It's hard for a parent to look at their kids and think they could do something so terrible, but you know what? It happens. Better to be safe about it and lock your firearms up in a manner that your kids cannot access them without your supervision.

I think there are a lot of gun owners out there that would be more conscientious about how their weapons are stored/secured if they knew the state could prosecute them if one of their weapons is used in a crime.

[darb72]

I’m not bashing Religion. That’s actually the founding formula for any 12 step program. I’m just trying to point out that you and Rav make it sound like the shooters here are “inner city kids with no hope” there not. Most are middle class white kids.


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Actually, if we go by the generally accepted definition of mass shooting as four or more people getting shot in one instance, then yeah, the majority of mass shootings occur in inner cities. You're just thinking of the ones that make the news.

[ravenmaniac4life]

Actually, if we go by the generally accepted definition of mass shooting as four or more people getting shot in one instance, then yeah, the majority of mass shootings occur in inner cities. You're just thinking of the ones that make the news.

You are right. According to the FBI, 4 or more people killed in a single event is considered a “mass shooting.”

The media decides which ones matter. The ones in the inner cities clearly don’t. I wonder why? Point of reference...59 people were shot in Chicago this past weekend.