The Trump phenomenon seen from overseas.

[bossofataka]

Yes America first. I don’t see why that is problematic. Just as you should be Sweden first and brits should be England first.
But seriously, applying a much bigger reduction to the us who does it cleaner, and basically have no standards for China and India who do it comparatively dirtier is a bad deal for the us. But what is don’t really understand is why you care, since it was basically voluntary and there weren’t really any enforcement mechanisms in place. No one is stopping you from riding a bike or taking public transit or putting up solar panels.
Of course I don’t buy into the whole man made global crisis and think in the us the movement as become home for socialists.
I also don’t buy for a second that if a gentleman president put in the same policies trump has that you wouldn’t be nearly as put out.

Yeah, but we don´t work taht way here on environmental issues. We understand and accept that we, the western world, are responsible in large for these emissions, and not only that, we can add the decline in speices etc aswell, but lets not go there now. We might not like it, but it is a fact. We´ve been using up fossile fuels and made our planet dirtier, warmer and using it´s resources in a way that is not sustainable. Now, Sweden is tiny on a global scale of course, the EU as a whole is a big player though, and can make an impact if we work together. The US is basically as big as teh EU and can also make an impact, and has made a larger negative impact then anyone else too. Therefore, me, and most of the rest of the world (and thankfully many americans, even corporation heads etc) think that everyone has to be in on this, otherwise we might be in serious trouble. The rise in temperature and decline of glaciers and ice sheets only the last 5-10 years has been even more rapid than what scientists thougt. We´re at a threshold, and we don´t even now the consequenses fully, only that they´ll probably be bad.

But I could be like you. Not give shit. Sweden will probablt fare better then most. We have cold climate, our land is still rising after the alst ice age, we might be able to grow crops that we cant right now etc. But how selfish and shitty is that, when we know how it will impact south easth asia, parts of america and maybe southern europe aswell?

[NCRAVEN]

If there is one american politician I would trust, it´d probably be him, yeah.

And from a far that's fine, but being here, yeah no.

I do think he is genuinly a good person. But I don´t have to take his word for it. I have also seen him be president for eight years without any marxist coup, or state taking over every enterprise their is, or implementing Gulag. He set ashore a little, minimal health care system, that even makes our now diminishing swedish one look almighty, that might be a bit marxist of the man perhaps? ;)

Well, I think he's more of a statist than anything. But just because he didn't try some Marxist coup (our constitution, system of government, laws etc would make that EXTREMLY unlikely to happen) doesn't mean he's not one.

[bossofataka]

And from a far that's fine, but being here, yeah no.




Well, I don't he's more of a statist than anything. But just because he didn't try some Marxist coup (our constitution, system of government, laws etc would make that EXTREMLY unlikely to happen) doesn't mean he's not a not one.

Jeez, you sound like conspiracy guy now... You really don´t like Obama, do you..?
But find me a marxist or socialist that seems Obama as a brother in arms. You can´t do that. I know marxists. I´m pretty much a socialist, in your eyes probably an extreme one at that, and I tell you, Obama aint that..

[NCRAVEN]

Jeez, you sound like conspiracy guy now... You really don´t like Obama, do you..?

What did I write that was conspiratorial?

But find me a marxist or socialist that seems Obama as a brother in arms. You can´t do that. I know marxists. I´m pretty much a socialist, in your eyes probably an extreme one at that, and I tell you, Obama aint that..

So the burden of proof is what other socialist think of him? Can I apply that to what you claim Trump to be?

[DitkasSausage]

Well, problem here is I get frustrated not being able to express myself the way I want, I had to look for sources since I read most things in swedish for obvious reasons. And I also spent loads of time on the first response that disappeared when the fire wall set in, got mad and made a lousy job I guess on the second one. Think it was one of the links I had. Anyway...

Yes, Forbes. This was an independent columnist, oil and gas worker, that sometimes writes pieces in Forbes, trying to split hairs to try and give Trump right when he was wrong. Trying to compare apples with pears and twist stats to make it look like TRump wqas still sort of right you know. And that is teh first thing you send, and you blame me for my sources? That wikipedia list of spending in teh Green Fund is way better actually...

And you stated that the US would be obliged to pay 85% of all costs according to that Paris Agreement, yes? That what was got me going in the first place, because it is not true! And you must know this? It´s propaganda, if it´s even that? Can you find that figure anywhere?

And US is not unique in decreasing co2 while increasing energy production! The whole western world has done so! You stated that the US had decreased more then Sweden since 1990, which isn´t true either, not that it really matters. Sweden has decreased its emissions by 26% since 1990. The link will be in swedish, but you´ll still get the numbers. And still, you constantly avoid this, the US per capita is the highest of any western country. 2/3 higher then Sedens for example. So decreasing from that level tou ours is also far easier then for us to go to zero.

And none of your decrease is because of Trump! It´s because of the likes of Obama! You did increase your co2 emissions last year, due in part to his crazy medieval idea about coal. Totally contradictory to what you initially said. Thankfully not even the industry themselves believe in it so it might not be that bad in the end. I´m GLAD the US has decreased it´s emissions! I´m not denying they have at all! But it´s not guys like Trump that can take glory for it. Thankfully, again, car industries etc now work on global scale and will still continue to cut and go green. Big states like Californa will still continue their work. If they were a country of their own they´d probably be top of all charts of cutting emissions etc.

You´re a libertarian, you´re extremely self confident, even when you´re wrong, you despise "leftists". You´re an economist in some for most likely? Pretty well educated from a well renowned school and quite succesful in your field?

EDIT: Sorry, that link...

http://www.naturvardsverket.se/Sa-ma...pp-och-upptag/

Also, this one is why I "defend" China and India, not that I want them to keep emissions going up, but you know..

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-envir...hina-emissions

YES!!! We have another Baldy!!! a VOX Article

[bossofataka]

What did I write that was conspiratorial?

So the burden of proof is what other socialist think of him? Can I apply that to what you claim Trump to be?

It was more the tone, and almost an implication that could he, he would have gone full blown Soviet Union on your asses.

To a degree, yes. But it´s much more difficult to define "blunt", "rude" and "bully" then marxist. If you mean "racist", which I think I´ve stated he probably isn´t, that´s tough aswell. You´ll find KKK folks that have endorsed him, you´ll find minority people that have endorsed him, you´ll find alt right wing that hates him, you´ll find minorities that loath him.. but in Obamas case it´s much clearer. You´ll find none. ANd you should bare in mind taht most that calls themselves socialist or marxist, especially here in europe, do so without a doubt, proudly. With racists it´s a little more shady, always has been.

[bossofataka]

YES!!! We have another Baldy!!! a VOX Article

So? The figures are the same wheather it´s called vox or FoxNews.

[bossofataka]

HAHA! That was hilarious when he made fun of that handicapped reporter... i almost forgot about that!!! lol!
Also, his actualy quote was, "They will LET you grab them by the pussy". It implies consent

I know you´re not serious now, but still have to point out there is seldom funny with jokes that (with risk of poor translation) "kick from a priviliged positon downwords", and mocking like that, who does that, to anyone, really...

Yes, correct, or atleast persuaded consent...

[NCRAVEN]

It was more the tone, and almost an implication that could he, he would have gone full blown Soviet Union on your asses.

To a degree, yes. But it´s much more difficult to define "blunt", "rude" and "bully" then marxist. If you mean "racist", which I think I´ve stated he probably isn´t, that´s tough aswell. You´ll find KKK folks that have endorsed him, you´ll find minority people that have endorsed him, you´ll find alt right wing that hates him, you´ll find minorities that loath him.. but in Obamas case it´s much clearer. You´ll find none. ANd you should bare in mind taht most that calls themselves socialist or marxist, especially here in europe, do so without a doubt, proudly. With racists it´s a little more shady, always has been.

And in a capitalist freedom loving country, you won't find many that will admit to being a socialist, at least not when they're running for political office and expects to win.

Just read his books, I'm not going to educate you on it for you to disagree as we go.

[bossofataka]

And in a capitalist freedom loving country, you won't find many that will admit to being a socialist, at least not when they're running for political office and expects to win.

Just read his books, I'm not going to educate you on it for you to disagree as we go.

True. Same as noone willing to admit publicly being atheist. I think a few years ago there was only one in all of congress who was openly an athesist. Statisticlly thats basically impossible, but same reason. Isn´t it a little bit sad that people can´t be open about these things in afree country? And get elected I mean. A mormon can, but not an atheist..? Also, don´t forget we´re also a capitalist freedom loving country, where it´s not controversial. Calling yourself a nationalist is controversial here though. Well, marxist is a little more controversial too, but noone really calls themselves that anyway, except on the fringe. And if you had a more extreme religious belief, like mormon, that would scare many off. Funny how we still have basically the same living standard, drive the same cars, see the same TV-shows etc..

I will actually, I think it´s good read anyhow. I´ll get back to you when I have. But, even so, he aint a marxist...

[wickedsolo]

No, I don´t need to read his books to know that he is not a marxist. He may be a social democrat by european standards, he is not a socialist or a marxist ny anyones standards, no matter what right wing media in the states say. You´re not going to find ONE actual socialist or marxist that thinks that.

Not that a little more socialism, as in the western european form, would do the US good. And us too, we´re moving away a little from that.

So...we tell you that there is a fair amount of evidence in his own writings that (at least some of) his ideologies align with social Marxist principles...and your response is you don’t need to read the man’s own words to know he isn’t?

That’s one of the more illogical things I’ve read on the Internet today.


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[wickedsolo]

Oh? I´ve heard him say many times he´s no socialist, and marxist is even more extreme. And I´ve only ever seen these claims in right wing american media, nowhere else. And the fact remains, you will not find ONE socialist or marxist that sees him as their compadre.

Of course he says that. Communism doesn’t exactly scream “good idea!” in the public perception arena, you know?


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