Tanier on Lamar

[NjRavensFan]

the odd thing here for me is that you think wanting my qb to be able to make routine passes look routine is unreasonable.

the vast majority of NFL QBs dont have those issues (including backups), hence the definition of "routine pass". I dont think its unreasonable to expect him to make them look routine and when youre talking about the easiest passes he can make, id expect to see improvement there before anywhere else. Unreasonable would be expecting him to improve accuracy on backshoulder passes or middle of the field which are inherently more difficult. the distinction of "routine" is important as i wouldnt expect a big leap in those other areas.

No, we all want that. That’s not what’s unreasonable.

Expecting all his issues to be fixed in three months, and acting like the fact that he still sometimes throws an errant ball means the work he put in didn’t pay off at all, that’s what’s unreasonable.

By all accounts (including this one) he showed a ton of progress in mini camp.

[Rygar64]

"If this year's minicamp is any indication, the Lamar Jackson the Ravens are getting this fall looks a lot better than the one they had in training camp last year.

Jackson looks and sounds sharper and more accurate, decisive and confident than he did last offseason.

Just as important, he looks comfortable in a newfangled offense that, according to Ravens coaches, has been completely rebuilt."

That was also printed as part of the article. I think it's just as big a mistake to focus on the "negative" as it is to only hype up the "positive". Personally, I wouldn't expect to see reports of no errant passes and super crisp offense until sometime after year 3 or 4 in the same offense with the same core guys. The offense isn't just new for Lamar, it's new for every skill position player, most of whom are rookies or second year guys themselves. I agree with the poster who said, what we should be looking for are incremental improvements and IMHO overall grasping of the offense. I'm on the fence with Lamar and I'm excited to see where this next era of Ravens football is going to go...but some of this hyper analyzing for a second year guy with 8 NFL starts seems over the top to me.

[BPF2]

Original QB coach being Harris?



I don't think what he said is unreasonable. I was perosnally hoping I wouldn't hear about any more errant passes. I don't expect every pass to be a completition of course, but I definitely dont' want to see them randomly going into the dirt anymore. I think that's what Jab is referring to anyway. Maybe I'm wrong.

I think like another poster mentioned, the coach he was working with identified several issues with mechanics and given the short time had to pick the ones that were probably easiest to fix and would produce the most combined improvement. So I wouldn't expect all his issues to be fixed. I would hope to see incremental improvement in his throwing year over year. He's not going to go from Lamar to Brees in a year.

The other thing to keep in mind is that he's going to be expected to throw more and run less this year. So even if the improvement is slight - it will be on a larger sample and have a larger impact overall.

I guess, though I don't want to see throws randomly into the dirt, I do kind of expect some. And while I'll think WTF? in the moment, I'm hoping the rest of his plays make those rare WTF throws easier to take.

[NjRavensFan]

"If this year's minicamp is any indication, the Lamar Jackson the Ravens are getting this fall looks a lot better than the one they had in training camp last year.

Jackson looks and sounds sharper and more accurate, decisive and confident than he did last offseason.

Just as important, he looks comfortable in a newfangled offense that, according to Ravens coaches, has been completely rebuilt."

That was also printed as part of the article. I think it's just as big a mistake to focus on the "negative" as it is to only hype up the "positive". Personally, I wouldn't expect to see reports of no errant passes and super crisp offense until sometime after year 3 or 4 in the same offense with the same core guys. The offense isn't just new for Lamar, it's new for every skill position player, most of whom are rookies or second year guys themselves. I agree with the poster who said, what we should be looking for are incremental improvements and IMHO overall grasping of the offense. I'm on the fence with Lamar and I'm excited to see where this next era of Ravens football is going to go...but some of this hyper analyzing for a second year guy with 8 NFL starts seems over the top to me.

I think like another poster mentioned, the coach he was working with identified several issues with mechanics and given the short time had to pick the ones that were probably easiest to fix and would produce the most combined improvement. So I wouldn't expect all his issues to be fixed. I would hope to see incremental improvement in his throwing year over year. He's not going to go from Lamar to Brees in a year.

The other thing to keep in mind is that he's going to be expected to throw more and run less this year. So even if the improvement is slight - it will be on a larger sample and have a larger impact overall.

I guess, though I don't want to see throws randomly into the dirt, I do kind of expect some. And while I'll think WTF? in the moment, I'm hoping the rest of his plays make those rare WTF throws easier to take.

Exactly what I was trying to say. Both of yall said it better though lol

[Rygar64]

Shifting gears just a little, because this has the early markings of every other Lamar thread that has gone off the rails (as soon as the brigade gets in here)...The things I liked about that article were that it shed a little bit of light on the fact that the Ravens do really appear to be trying to modernize and I am very intrigued by that:

"Terminology that doesn't date back to the days of Bill Walsh? Backup quarterbacks with the same general skill set as the starter? An offense that embraces mobility instead of slapping an option "package" atop a conventional offense like a spoiler on a family sedan? The Ravens may finally be the NFL team that has figured out how to maximize the potential of a multidimensional quarterback like Jackson."

and

"Most of the option concepts you see on NFL Sundays are still spot-welded onto old-fashioned offenses, which is why they are often as well-executed as the sushi at a pizza parlor. Even mobile veterans like Russell Wilson and Cam Newton get shackled to the oldest of the old-school coordinators (Brian Schottenheimer and Norv Turner), who awkwardly shoehorn designed quarterback runs into systems designed for pocket passers. The NFL establishment swears that designed runs are just gimmicks and then makes sure that remains true by never committing fully to embracing them."

I don't know how successful this will be in the long run or how committed the team really is to changing their offensive philosophy, but if it works, you could see the Ravens at the forefront of "modernizing" certain aspects of NFL offense. I think successfully implementing something like this could pay major dividends in drafts going forward because skill positions players would be able to get up to speed much faster if they were coming into a system that similar to one they played in at the collegiate level.

[InigoMontoya]

I think like another poster mentioned, the coach he was working with identified several issues with mechanics and given the short time had to pick the ones that were probably easiest to fix and would produce the most combined improvement. So I wouldn't expect all his issues to be fixed. I would hope to see incremental improvement in his throwing year over year. He's not going to go from Lamar to Brees in a year.

The other thing to keep in mind is that he's going to be expected to throw more and run less this year. So even if the improvement is slight - it will be on a larger sample and have a larger impact overall.

I guess, though I don't want to see throws randomly into the dirt, I do kind of expect some. And while I'll think WTF? in the moment, I'm hoping the rest of his plays make those rare WTF throws easier to take.

IMO, your last paragraph is why there's such harsh criticism by analysts and fans for Lamar. Sometimes he missed horribly. There are those fans and analysts who remember those plays over all others. No matter how much the other plays stand out.

I think a lot of fans would rather have 10 slightly overthrown passes by a QB vs. one horrible pass in the dirt.

[NjRavensFan]

Shifting gears just a little, because this has the early markings of every other Lamar thread that has gone off the rails (as soon as the brigade gets in here)...The things I liked about that article were that it shed a little bit of light on the fact that the Ravens do really appear to be trying to modernize and I am very intrigued by that:

"Terminology that doesn't date back to the days of Bill Walsh? Backup quarterbacks with the same general skill set as the starter? An offense that embraces mobility instead of slapping an option "package" atop a conventional offense like a spoiler on a family sedan? The Ravens may finally be the NFL team that has figured out how to maximize the potential of a multidimensional quarterback like Jackson."

and

"Most of the option concepts you see on NFL Sundays are still spot-welded onto old-fashioned offenses, which is why they are often as well-executed as the sushi at a pizza parlor. Even mobile veterans like Russell Wilson and Cam Newton get shackled to the oldest of the old-school coordinators (Brian Schottenheimer and Norv Turner), who awkwardly shoehorn designed quarterback runs into systems designed for pocket passers. The NFL establishment swears that designed runs are just gimmicks and then makes sure that remains true by never committing fully to embracing them."

I don't know how successful this will be in the long run or how committed the team really is to changing their offensive philosophy, but if it works, you could see the Ravens at the forefront of "modernizing" certain aspects of NFL offense. I think successfully implementing something like this could pay major dividends in drafts going forward because skill positions players would be able to get up to speed much faster if they were coming into a system that similar to one they played in at the collegiate level.

Yeah it wasn’t my intent to steer things in that direction... just trying to set reasonable expectations about growth and what progress looks like, but you’re right that’s definitely how it would’ve played out if we stayed on that path, and this thread/article deserve better lol. My bad.

It’s really exciting to think about what this offense could look like. And we’re probably going to have no idea until the regular season. I imagine it’s going to be a very watered down version this preseason.

[BPF2]

IMO, your last paragraph is why there's such harsh criticism by analysts and fans for Lamar. Sometimes he missed horribly. There are those fans and analysts who remember those plays over all others. No matter how much the other plays stand out.

I think a lot of fans would rather have 10 slightly overthrown passes by a QB vs. one horrible pass in the dirt.

You're correct. I mean, when the subject of his accuracy comes up, the first two throws that come to mind for me are the dirt throw to Andrews and the other one to Snead. What I'm hoping is next season if there are any like that I'll soon forget them in the mix of all the great plays.

I think it's also overblown because accuracy was a known issue with him up front and the focus on him as a runner. There have been plenty of games where the Ravens D was beat and the opposing QB threw over or behind a wide open receiver. But those QBs don't get overly scrutinized as a result.

[Shrubbs]

I think it’s unreasonable to expect Jackson’s issues to be completely fixed, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask him to make routine easy passes the majority of the time.

[Shrubbs]

All that being said, I’m just happy we’re moving in the right direction

[InigoMontoya]

Shifting gears just a little, because this has the early markings of every other Lamar thread that has gone off the rails (as soon as the brigade gets in here)...The things I liked about that article were that it shed a little bit of light on the fact that the Ravens do really appear to be trying to modernize and I am very intrigued by that:

"Terminology that doesn't date back to the days of Bill Walsh? Backup quarterbacks with the same general skill set as the starter? An offense that embraces mobility instead of slapping an option "package" atop a conventional offense like a spoiler on a family sedan? The Ravens may finally be the NFL team that has figured out how to maximize the potential of a multidimensional quarterback like Jackson."

and

"Most of the option concepts you see on NFL Sundays are still spot-welded onto old-fashioned offenses, which is why they are often as well-executed as the sushi at a pizza parlor. Even mobile veterans like Russell Wilson and Cam Newton get shackled to the oldest of the old-school coordinators (Brian Schottenheimer and Norv Turner), who awkwardly shoehorn designed quarterback runs into systems designed for pocket passers. The NFL establishment swears that designed runs are just gimmicks and then makes sure that remains true by never committing fully to embracing them."

I don't know how successful this will be in the long run or how committed the team really is to changing their offensive philosophy, but if it works, you could see the Ravens at the forefront of "modernizing" certain aspects of NFL offense. I think successfully implementing something like this could pay major dividends in drafts going forward because skill positions players would be able to get up to speed much faster if they were coming into a system that similar to one they played in at the collegiate level.

I'd definitely like to see more detail on how this offense is built specifically for a mobile QB like Lamar. Jimzipcode and edromeo have speculated on what it could be based on Greg Roman's past, but with a built-from-the-ground-up offense, I'd expect it to differ.

P.S. When I think of someone building something based on Lamar's throwing style, I think of this:

[Rygar64]

I'd definitely like to see more detail on how this offense is built specifically for a mobile QB like Lamar. Jimzipcode and edromeo have speculated on what it could be based on Greg Roman's past, but with a built-from-the-ground-up offense, I'd expect it to differ.

P.S. When I think of someone building something based on Lamar's throwing style, I think of this:

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Lamar Latrell FTW!!!

That javelin wobbled...but it got there...PHYSICS!!!!!

ROTFLMAO


please please please....for the love of Pete, let that be the last "wobble" reference.