OT: International Soccer This Summer (Womens World Cup, Gold Cup, U-20 World Cup, ...)

[mmi16]

Seriously how is this hard to understand. The rest of the world barely pays attention to women’s sports in general.
Wages are based on revenue, not some magical “value” based on “equality” or success.

And as such, Men's wages should be scaled to their consistent failures. The USA is a 'pay for performance' country. If you don't perform you don't get paid!

[YoCo757]

And as such, Men's wages should be scaled to their consistent failures. The USA is a 'pay for performance' country. If you don't perform you don't get paid!

This is meant to be sarcastic, right? If not, then I’ll refute the ‘pay for performance’ claim with 2 words: Chris Davis

[Kyle Cactus]

And as such, Men's wages should be scaled to their consistent failures. The USA is a 'pay for performance' country. If you don't perform you don't get paid!

It's not based on success, it's based on revenue. Historically the Women's team didn't bring in near the same revenue. They did renegotiate their labor agreement with US Soccer in 2017, and they got a big pay bump. They still don't get paid as much as the men for their national team work, but US Soccer also pays the professional salaries of USWNT players playing in the NWSL in order to help that league survive. US Soccer isn't doing the same for the men's players, so I don't think it's fair to US Soccer to criticize them if your only comparing national team pay.

In the end, if people want them to be able to make more money, they should support women's soccer more. Just following the national team, or only doing so during the World Cup won't bring the women's game into revenue parity. In 2018 MLS had average attendance of 22,000, compared to 6,000 for NWSL.

WSJ has a good breakdown of USWNT revenues vs USMNT. This SI article breaks down the 2017 labor agreement..

Collectively the two articles note a bunch of things:
- Event revenues are basically the same now, and even slightly higher for the women
- Men's games still tend to get better ratings, but given that the men missed their last WC and the women are now playing one, I'd have to think the women will have a big edge in ratings this year
- Sponsorships are complicated since US Soccer tends to do sponsorship deals that aren't specifically for the men's or women's teams.
- The women have a completely different employment structure. They are employees of US Soccer, whereas the men are primarily employees of their club teams. US Soccer is paying the NWSL salaries of USWNT players. It doesn't do that for the men.

[mmi16]

This is meant to be sarcastic, right? If not, then I’ll refute the ‘pay for performance’ claim with 2 words: Chris Davis

Had Chris Davis signed single year contracts he would not be in uniform today. Baseball is paying for future expectations based on past performance, not present performance realities.

[Kyle Cactus]

18 goals to none in the group stage. Granted, we got most of that against a Thailand team that looks like they were easily the worst team in the tournament, but it's a dominant start. It's all about how you finish though. We started slow last WC and ended up winning the whole thing.

I think offsides should have been called on the own goal that Heath created.

[BillickFan]

By some measures, the women are currently overpaid.

From Forbes:
"When viewed appropriately—based on how much money they generate—women actually make more than men.

As Dwight Jaynes pointed out four years ago after the U.S. women beat Japan to capture the World Cup in Vancouver, there is a big difference in the revenue available to pay the teams. The Women's World Cup brought in almost $73 million, of which the players got 13%. The 2010 men's World Cup in South Africa made almost $4 billion, of which 9% went to the players."

If the women were to reduce incomes to 9% of revenue, or the men increase their pay to 13% of revenue - we'd then be at parity. Till then....I'll suggest the men not whine about their gross under-payment vs the women.

[BigPlayReceiver]

By some measures, the women are currently overpaid.

From Forbes:
"When viewed appropriately—based on how much money they generate—women actually make more than men.

As Dwight Jaynes pointed out four years ago after the U.S. women beat Japan to capture the World Cup in Vancouver, there is a big difference in the revenue available to pay the teams. The Women's World Cup brought in almost $73 million, of which the players got 13%. The 2010 men's World Cup in South Africa made almost $4 billion, of which 9% went to the players."

If the women were to reduce incomes to 9% of revenue, or the men increase their pay to 13% of revenue - we'd then be at parity. Till then....I'll suggest the men not whine about their gross under-payment vs the women.

Yikes.

I'll suggest to Forbes and people who read it, try to understand the actual issue b/c at the center of it is the US Soccer Federation, not [FIFA and] the World Cup.

[JAB1985]

the Norway v Australia game was a great watch saturday.

[cvilleRaven]

Yikes.

I'll suggest to Forbes and people who read it, try to understand the actual issue b/c at the center of it is the US Soccer Federation, not [FIFA and] the World Cup.

Professional sports are entertainment. Entertainers are paid based on revenue generated. As an example, let's examine the Marvel Cinematic Universe versus Academy Award winning films. Avengers Endgame has broken one record after another in revenue, with Robert Downey, Jr. as the lead actor - as he has been in the MCU since 2008. Should actors such as Christian Bale, Bradley Cooper, Willem Dafoe, or Viggo Mortensen (Best Actor nominees for the 2018 movie season) be paid more than him for films released in 2019? Absolutely not - none of them are headlining multi-billion dollar films.

This lawsuit hinges on one fact - does the women's team generate revenue at a higher, equal, or lower rate than the men? Success as a team is irrelevant for this discussion. At best, team results are included in the overall interest in the team, which should drive revenue (Americans like to watch Americans winning - go figure).

[Kyle Cactus]

Professional sports are entertainment. Entertainers are paid based on revenue generated. As an example, let's examine the Marvel Cinematic Universe versus Academy Award winning films. Avengers Endgame has broken one record after another in revenue, with Robert Downey, Jr. as the lead actor - as he has been in the MCU since 2008. Should actors such as Christian Bale, Bradley Cooper, Willem Dafoe, or Viggo Mortensen (Best Actor nominees for the 2018 movie season) be paid more than him for films released in 2019? Absolutely not - none of them are headlining multi-billion dollar films.

This lawsuit hinges on one fact - does the women's team generate revenue at a higher, equal, or lower rate than the men? Success as a team is irrelevant for this discussion. At best, team results are included in the overall interest in the team, which should drive revenue (Americans like to watch Americans winning - go figure).

The problem is BillckFan quoted overall World Cup revenues and not national team revenues. At this point the US women's team is bringing in similar revenues to the men's team. It's still a little more complicated than that because US Soccer also pays NWSL salaries of the women's national team players, but when talking about US players, you need to compare the revenues for US Soccer.

...

Not the most convincing win vs Spain. Hopefully they can crank it up a notch vs France.

[RavenIsh]

Hope they do okay for the US sakes but I'll watch the real Copa Mundial when that comes back.

[alien bird]

Well, they played poorly today, but still advance. Of course, Spain probably had 20 fouls that weren't called. They beat the crap out of Alex Morgan.