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  1. #157

    Re: A moral obligation to impeach

    Quote Originally Posted by BustOfPallas View Post
    I trust him not to f*** up the economy and to put us on better economic footing than any other person running for office, and not to get us tangled up in idiotic wars but at the same time keep our enemies guessing/worried what he might do if provoked.

    I can't say that about any other Democrat except maybe Biden. My problem with Biden is 1) He is a cartoonish buffoon. 2)He's part of the same establishment that needs to go/never be in power again. 3) I think he's too old now and think he will say crazy/dumb stuff daily that makes Trump seem eminently sane and in control however petulant and childish he can be at times. 4) Biden has said some things about immigration and foreign policy that are disqualifying. Biden doesn't take the China threat seriously. He recently said things about free healthcare for illegals and that drunk driving is not a deportable crime for illegal immigrants. That's just nuts if you ask me.

    Any Democrat that ran on an immigration policy closer to Trumps (i.e. merit based with emphasis on education and skills we want in this country regardless of country of origin) and with even a marginally America first type of economic policy with emphasis on protecting workers (or giving that lip service regardless of if it was reality or not) would clean Trumps clock.

    5) I forgot to mention Biden is part of the class of politicians that has steered millions upon millions to his brothers and sons. If Trump did even 1/20th of the corrupt things Biden has done for his family there would be calls for firing squads/armed revolution from Democrats. I would want him impeached for some of the things Biden has done.
    It to mention, Biden has actually been caught a few times in corruption.





  2. #158
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    Re: A moral obligation to impeach

    Quote Originally Posted by darb72 View Post
    If we go just by effects on Americans, Trump is one of the best presidents in my life time. Bush, Clinton, Obama were all bad presidents specifically because they increased the scope of the federal government into our lives. Clinton fucked the economy sideways, Bush corn-holed an entire generation of children's education, while Obama gave Iran 150 billion dollars and managed to fuck health care sideways.

    Democrats will not argue Trump's policy records, instead screaming ORANGE MAN BAD!!!
    How do you square the fact the we now at over a trillion in debt? Are we still banking on the tax cuts to start paying for themselves? Let's hope that they do. But if they don't, would that change your outlook? When those chickens come home to roost and we crash, would you be honest enough to cast blame accordingly? Or will the blame be plastered to whomever is in office when it occurs? Unfortunately, the latter is the way it always goes.

    Obviously, fingers crossed nothing like this happens.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk





  3. #159
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    Re: A moral obligation to impeach

    Quote Originally Posted by ddr_jr View Post
    How do you square the fact the we now at over a trillion in debt? Are we still banking on the tax cuts to start paying for themselves? Let's hope that they do. But if they don't, would that change your outlook? When those chickens come home to roost and we crash, would you be honest enough to cast blame accordingly? Or will the blame be plastered to whomever is in office when it occurs? Unfortunately, the latter is the way it always goes.

    Obviously, fingers crossed nothing like this happens.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    The debt and deficit are definitely concerning. I am consistently disgusted by government spending.

    However, I admit that I've started to wonder about whether or not we (as a public) are considering all of the angles when it comes to this topic. For example, new trade deals with China, Canada, and Mexico. How do those things impact the debt/deficit? Reducing illegal immigration thereby reducing the number of uninsured and unemployed people putting strain on public services, etc.

    I'm not sure if those things impact the national debt/deficit, but it would definitely be worth looking into. I honestly don't know.
    Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.





  4. #160
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    Re: A moral obligation to impeach

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Best yet, his greatest accomplishments will last for decades, and may just barely begin to be felt before he leaves office(trade renegotiation).


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    Well, for these farmer's sake, I hope these negotiations eventually work out as you say. It's tough right now.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikshe...ers-subsidies/

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk





  5. #161

    Re: A moral obligation to impeach

    Quote Originally Posted by ddr_jr View Post
    How do you square the fact the we now at over a trillion in debt? Are we still banking on the tax cuts to start paying for themselves? Let's hope that they do. But if they don't, would that change your outlook? When those chickens come home to roost and we crash, would you be honest enough to cast blame accordingly? Or will the blame be plastered to whomever is in office when it occurs? Unfortunately, the latter is the way it always goes.

    Obviously, fingers crossed nothing like this happens.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    We've been going into debt for decades now. Personally, I hate it and blame every single president, congressman, and senator. Trump is just as guilty as the rest of 'em when it comes to debt.

    Entitlement spending needs to be reigned in, along with foreign aide.
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, “Hi I’m Ben may I have a drink please?”
    ProFootballMock





  6. #162

    Re: A moral obligation to impeach

    Quote Originally Posted by ddr_jr View Post
    Well, for these farmer's sake, I hope these negotiations eventually work out as you say. It's tough right now.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikshe...ers-subsidies/

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    It got better.
    https://www.post-gazette.com/news/po...s/202001150140
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, “Hi I’m Ben may I have a drink please?”
    ProFootballMock





  7. #163

    Re: A moral obligation to impeach

    Quote Originally Posted by darb72 View Post
    We've been going into debt for decades now. Personally, I hate it and blame every single president, congressman, and senator. Trump is just as guilty as the rest of 'em when it comes to debt.

    Entitlement spending needs to be reigned in, along with foreign aide.
    It would also be nice to find a real solution to reducing the defense portion of spending being as it’s about half the budget, but that is the longest discussion known to man... partially because it’s such a catch-all bin for basically running the fucking planet.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





  8. #164

    Re: A moral obligation to impeach

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    It would also be nice to find a real solution to reducing the defense portion of spending being as it’s about half the budget, but that is the longest discussion known to man... partially because it’s such a catch-all bin for basically running the fucking planet.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Trump actually doing something about that, making our allies pay their fair share.
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, “Hi I’m Ben may I have a drink please?”
    ProFootballMock





  9. #165
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    Re: A moral obligation to impeach

    Quote Originally Posted by darb72 View Post
    We've been going into debt for decades now. Personally, I hate it and blame every single president, congressman, and senator. Trump is just as guilty as the rest of 'em when it comes to debt.

    Corporate welfare needs to be reigned in, along with foreign aide.

    FTFY
    "We're not changing anything." -John Harbaugh





  10. #166
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    Re: A moral obligation to impeach

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    Because they are smart self-possesed women who know their own mind, and see Republanism for the rotten lie it has morphed into over the past ~25 years.


    Yeah, actually that didn't happen. The lie that Ilhan Omar is anti-semitic and AOC is dumb, reveals far more about you people who tell it than about the ladies themselves.



    Written with a straight face while the Orange Crook is in office! WOW.



    An interesting take.

    Last cycle, I was profoundly pro-Hillary and profoundly irritated with the Bernie Bros and the Jill Stein people etc etc etc. Now it's ~4 years later, and I am a ton more sanguine about the Liz's and the AOCs. My own policy preferences have always been more in line with what you might call "moderate Democrats" from the 90s. But the last ~dozen years, "moderate Democrats" have become appeasers to the furthest-right Fox News fringes. It's appalling.

    Still a ways to go in this cycle. But my opinions are trending in the direction voting for someone whose policies are more Progressive than my own. For one, that seems to be the only element of the party that has a a distinct voice and enough balls not to surrender to the far Right. And for two, I think the Overton Window shift would all by itself be a great benefit to the country, even if I am not personally 100% on-board with every policy proposal.

    What I'm saying is, where 4 years ago I would have been staunchly "Democrat" against "Progressives", in this false dichotomy trap you want my party to fall into; today I'm much more comfortable with the party moving more towards the Progressives. "Moderate Democrats" failed, because they were too concerned with winning votes and approval from Republicans. Fuck 'em. We can see very clearly the shithole country that Repubs are trying to turn this into: thta movement needs to be opposed. "Moderate Democrats" have proven incapable. Next!


    Possibly, I guess we'll see.

    But there's SO much racism and xenophobia across the Republican Talking Point Establishment, that it's hard for me to see whether what you're saying is actually true, or just what you guys want to be true. Legitimate perspective, or last gasp of a shrinking demographic? Hard to tell from the perspective of today.


    Absolutely 1,000% yes. Trump solicited a bribe from a foreign power, in order to perform official duties that he was legally required to do.

    That's the headline. Smaller-type for the law he broke about disbursing funds appropriated by Congress; also his numerous attempts to violate whistle-blower statutes.

    Of course it does not help at all that the ground was already eroded:
    • The Mueller Report made it clear that he should have been impeached for somewhere between six and fourteen counts of Obstruction of Justice.
    • The Trump Hotel in DC (and other venues) made it clear that he should have been impeached for violating the Emoluments Clause.

    So he had been on "impeachable soil" for a long time. But yeah, limited strictly to his conduct on Ukraine: it's so obviously a legitimate impeachment, that I think all you Repubs are trolling or gaslighting with claims to the contrary.


    Small minority = everyone who is not a brainwashed Republican.


    Blatantly disingenuous attempt to move the goalposts. The House did not conduct a trial. The Senate has the sole power of trying impeachments. The sham trial is thing that's ABOUT to happen; no trial has occurred yet.

    The House held hearings to determine whether there was credible evidence to sustain an indictment/impeachment. Despite administration efforts to sequester witnesses and withhold evidence, there was a surfeit of such evidence. And so we move to trial.

    The CRAZIEST fucking thing about it, is how the administration obstructs Congress, stonewalls the investigation at every turn, refuses to turn over documents that they're required to – and then you all say "Well the House didn't find proof!" Shyah. That's exculpatory.

    The Republican-controlled Senate will cooperate with the administration in every conceivable way to bury evidence; even to the point of not calling a single witness not named Biden. No rational person will watch the upcoming display and say to themselves, "Yup, that's a fair impartial process!" None. When you do, you seriously need to look at yourself in the mirror and recognize that you put party over country many years ago.


    I mean, the simplest possible test would be for you to ask yourselves if you woulda been ok with Obama doing anything remotely similar. But even the most cursory glance at your guys' threads about the "dictatorial Obama administration" reveals the answer at once. But it was as stupid question to begin with.

    The only fundamental Republican principle in the 21st Century is, it's wrong when Democrats do it.
    The complaints about the witnesses and the administration blocking documents actually annoy me quite a bit, because if the house hadn't been trying to rush things we could've had all of that resolved before things even went to the senate. To my understanding, the senate is under no obligation to call witnesses since the house was supposed to gather all the evidence before sending over the articles.

    However, they didn't do that, so as someone who isn't a republican I will say the case looks a bit weak.

    Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk





  11. #167
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    Re: A moral obligation to impeach

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad the lad View Post
    Your post are full of liberal talking points. As I read it, I couldnt tell if you were serious, or mocking the left.

    History will definitely look bad on the left for this clown show. The today show reluctantly ran a piece this morning. They went to several small towns in battle ground states. They couldn’t find anyone that was taking this impeachment seriously. Even the liberals they interviewed were upset that the dem class guess, in charge, wasn’t doing anything to get more handouts in action
    I don't think history will look particularly kindly at either party once this two decade race to the bottom is over.

    Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk





  12. #168

    Re: A moral obligation to impeach

    Quote Originally Posted by Terpsfan82 View Post
    FTFY
    All welfare needs to be reigned in.
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, “Hi I’m Ben may I have a drink please?”
    ProFootballMock





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