Coverage vs. Pass Rush

[DeltaRaven]

There’s 5 offensive lineman and typically a RB, I’d guess 95% of the time, there has to be a misread by an offensive lineman or a guy needs to beat a block to get to the QB.

Naive to believe that every blitz results in unblocked rushers.

You don't need pass rush moves against a RB.

If everyone manages to get blocked 1 on 1 then someone needs to win some of those matchups. We have a lot invested in the DL to the point of where they should be eating up multiple blockers or beating 1 on 1 matchups.

[Jfoh]

If you don’t have great cbs you will not get many sacks. Blown coverages are easy pitch and catch at this level. Teams are stressing gettingvthe ball out quickly to prevent sacks. If the ball comes out under two seconds you will never get to the qb unless a lineman falls down. So it comes down to can your backend cover for three plus seconds and can your edge rusher get the qb to move up into the pocket so it can collapse around him?

Our cbs are fully capable of doing this. Our lbs are a little shaky covering TE and rb coming out of the backfield. But if they get better the outlet passes will not be there. Then either they miss on third down or we get a sack. Either way it’s drive over and punting time.

[HbgPARavenfan]

We're better at finding corners then rushers and safeties. It's just been a whole in our scouting department

[NC Raven]

I dunno about all that. They just have better corners than pass rushers now. It would be one thing if we had a young Suggs plus a Dumervil and a Trevor Pryce and an Adalius Thomas. We don't. But we do have Marlon & Tavon & Jimmy & Brandon. So we use them.

It's not like they haven't tried to get pass rushers, and I'm including Tim Williams & J Ferguson. Just haven't panned out (yet).



You guys remember when we played the Giants in '16, and Odell Beckham finished with 220yds and a couple TDs? Not many keep this in mind, but Beckham got all of his stats in the second half. Thru the first half, he had basically nothing.

Jimmy Smith was on Beckham in the first half. Then Jimmy got hurt, either at the end of the half or the beginning of the third Q. The instant he was out of the game, Beckham exploded. Jimmy had Beckham completely under control, and then he went out of the game and Beckham went wild.

Jimmy at 30 is not what he was. But he's not toast either. And now Beckham is in the division. I'm not quite as eager to shove Jimmy out the door this offseason, as a lot of posters on this board are. I want Jimmy on-hand for those matchups against Cleveland, at least. Then after the season we can see what's what.



(Woulda been nice to add Houston, though. Or even Ezekiel Ansah.)

There's some pretty stark "With Jimmy" vs. "Without Jimmy" pass defense stats the past few seasons. Most fans are completely unaware of what happens when he's out. Last year the torch kind of passed to Marlon -- when he was hurt midseason, that's when our losing streak started. But you go back the last 2-3-4 seasons, it's night and day. When Jimmy's been out, the secondary has sucked.

[52N19]

don't forget willie henry. if he can stay healthy he can be aN impact player on the DL.

[Brtnder81]

Enjoyed this article by Luke Jones of WNST:

https://wnst.net/top-story/crabs-n-b...essure-debate/

I think he hits the nail on the head. The Ravens are definitely valuing corners above pass rushers. They could have released Jimmy Smith to create cap space to sign a pass rusher like Justin Houston, but they did not.

The Ravens seem to have the mentality of "an edge rusher getting stonewalled by an offensive tackle typically brings less potential consequence than a defensive back faltering for even a fraction of a second in coverage on a given pass play".

The Ravens have a bunch of guys that have shown flashes of pass rush potential, but only Judon has shown some consistency. I have confidence in Wink, but it will be a challenge for the secondary to cover long enough for the schemed pressure to get there.

Judon hasnt showed consisttency, thats why we wouldnt sign him to an extension yet. He had 7 sacks last season and 3 were in 3 consecutive plays. take that away and he had 4 sacks in the other 16 games. thats not consistency!

[ravens82]

Judon hasnt showed consisttency, thats why we wouldnt sign him to an extension yet. He had 7 sacks last season and 3 were in 3 consecutive plays. take that away and he had 4 sacks in the other 16 games. thats not consistency!

Judon has average nearly 20 QB hits and 7-8 sacks for two consecutive years. I would call that "some consistency". Certainly more than anyone else left on the roster. I did not say it was enough to deserve an extension.

[The Excellector]

It's not as if the team hasn't tried to find pass rushers. The effort has been there. More than anything, they've just done a better job of finding quality CBs than pass rushers.

[JimZipCode]

...and maybe 4) to some non-trivial degree, value coverage over pressure

I'm hoping that valuing coverage over pressure means the Ravens have solid data to show that good coverage can create pressure on a regular basis. My anecdotal feeling is that lack of pressure exposes even very good secondaries. I'd love to be proven wrong, though.

Remember that job listing they posted, for a data analyst? One of the questions they gave as an example was, which is more important, coverage or pass rush? They've definitely studied the issue, formally.



When we've lost to Brady in the playoffs; and when we lost to Cincy this past season; we were unable to stop quick passes. Brady and Red Rifle got it out of their hands almost instantly; maybe off a 3-step drop (or less!). We could do nothing with the quick game: the ball was in a playmakers hands before our defenders could react.

Pass rush can't do anything about that, I don't think. Just not humanly possible to get there fast enough.
(Maybe a rare exception, like the O-lineman in front of JJ Watt mishears the snap count and gets a late start: some mistake.)

Coverage can slow the quick game. If Brady goes to throw it, and Tavon or Marlon is glued to the target, then he has to pull it down and think, or wait for another target to come open. And now there's a chance for the pass rush to become a factor.



I think when we ask, "is coverage or pressure more important," I don't think it's as binary as that. I think there's a sequential flow to it:

1: Pass rush can't stop the quick game.

In the AFC you need to get past Brady. In the North, you need to stop Dalton from hitting AJ Green off a 3-step drop. You need to cover in the first 5 yards, or you're not getting to the conf champship game.

2: Coverage can't hold up for six seconds.

You can't let Ben have a cup of coffee and read the paper back there. He will carve you to pieces. If you can't make the QB get rid of the ball, your season ends early.

Sequence.

1.
You don't need pass rushers who can win in the first two steps of the rep. Those guys are great: but they're very rare, and they don't stop the quick game.
You do need Jimmy Smith, Marlon Humphrey, Tavon Young: corners who can cover in the first five yards.
Maybe a safety like Tony Jefferson can do that on TEs (possibly with LB help).

2.
Now you've managed to get 3 seconds into the snap without already losing. Good job. What's next?
You don't need small & quick pass rushers (Dwight Freeney -wannabes) who have already been stopped / engulfed / run out of the play by solid technical O-linemen. Those kind of guys, if they didn't win the rep early, now you're talking about the QB having 6 or 7 seconds to throw, and your elite secondary loses.

What you need now are power rushers who are still alive as threats, and are starting to arrive at top of the drop, pushing the OL back toward the QB. That's Terrell Suggs, right? Matt Judon. Jaylon Ferguson seems like that exact kind of player. Pernell or Zadarius moving the QB off his spot. Maybe Willie Henry or even Brandon Williams making it so there's no pocket to step up into.

These guys win the rep at 5 seconds. They're just not there are 3 seconds; but the QB better get rid of the ball at 4 seconds, because at 5 seconds he's wearing Judon like a bathrobe.

Can't throw quick. Can't hold and scan. Gotta throw or scramble at the 4 second mark. A defense that doesn't get a dominating number of sacks; but it forces incompletes and gets off the field.



I'm making all this up, obviously.

But doesn't it hold together, when you look at how the Ravens have been put together the last few seasons (including this one)? 1st-rd corners and 2nd (or 3rd)-rd pass rushers. Jimmy Smith and Paul Kruger. Marlon Humphrey and Chris Wormley.

BTW, I'm not trying to say there's no room for an elite twitchy pass rusher like an Elvis Dumervil. Or the real Dwight Freeney. There's always room for that guy. Maybe Shane Ray can bring some of that. (Would be sweet!)

They're both critical, in sequence. Coverage is critical early in the snap. Pressure is critical late in the snap. At the 4 second cusp it's all balanced, everything on the edge, could go either way.



Anyway, that's my current theory.

[JimZipCode]

Last year the torch kind of passed to Marlon -- when he was hurt midseason, that's when our losing streak started.

I completely failed to catch that. Thanks!