Did the Ravens try to build around Joe Flacco?

**InigoMontoya** · 02-14-2019, 12:27 PM

There's a popular and pervasive theory in these forums and in Baltimore.

It goes like this: The Ravens have always been myopically focused on defense, and never tried to build an offense for Joe Flacco. While other teams focused the top of their draft on offense, the Ravens have been drafting defensive linemen after defensive linemen in the first few rounds. While other successful teams got quality skill position free agents, the Ravens waited too long, and got over-the-hill receivers.

To see if that theory is true let's start by comparing how many skill position players (WR, RB and TE) the Ravens have drafted in the first three rounds vs. how many the Steelers, Falcons, Chargers, Packers, Giants, Patriots, Eagles, Chiefs and Saints have drafted in the first three rounds since 2009. This won't show if the Ravens did well in drafting these players, but it will show if the Ravens tried as hard as other teams that are well known for building around their franchise quarterbacks.

Steelers - 9 players drafted since 2009
Falcons - 4 players drafted since 2009
Chargers - 6 players drafted since 2009
Packers - 6 players drafted since 2009
Giants - 10 players drafted since 2009
Patriots - 7 players drafted since 2009 (They also picked 3 QBs in that time)
Eagles - 7 players drafted since 2009
Chiefs - 7 players drafted since 2009
Saints - 6 players drafted since 2009
Ravens - 8 players drafted since 2009

Two teams (Giants and Steelers) drafted more skill position players than the Ravens. 7 teams (Falcons, Chargers, Packers, Giants, Patriots, Eagles, Chiefs and Saints) drafted less. All since 2009. So, if most teams drafted less skill position players than us, why do they have better skill position players than we do? Short answer: they draft better. They hit more often, and have less absolute disasters then we do.

But...Inigo, you say. The problem isn't that the Ravens didn't draft since 2009, it's that they didn't draft enough offensive talent since the Super Bowl. So, let's try the same thing, the same chart, but since 2013. Clearly that will show everyone else is building around their QB, and the Ravens haven't.

Steelers - 7 players drafted since 2009
Falcons - 3 players drafted since 2013
Chargers - 4 players drafted since 2013
Packers - 4 players drafted since 2013
Giants - 4 players drafted since 2013
Patriots - 2 players drafted since 2013 (They also picked 2 QBs in that time)
Eagles - 5 players drafted since 2013
Chiefs - 5 players drafted since 2013
Saints - 4 players drafted since 2013
Ravens - 5 players drafted since 2013

1 team (Steelers) drafted more players than the Ravens. Two teams drafted as many as the Ravens. 6 teams drafted less. So, by and large the Ravens have drafted more skill position players than successful teams. They just haven't drafted the right skill position players.

* BTW, if you expand this focus to the first four rounds, the Ravens crush everyone in terms of numbers. They've drafted 8 (TEs, WRs and RBs) in the 4th round since 2009.

Conclusion: The Ravens did try to get Joe Flacco help at those positions through the top of the draft; even moreso than the majority of good offenses did, they just weren't very good at it.

**guymf4** · 02-14-2019, 12:40 PM

Great stats, good points. I just said something similar in a separate thread that in 2012, Pitta, Torrey and Rice were all drafted and the core of the offense (plus Boldin). By 2015 they were all gone and not one guy we drafted was ever able to fill any of those roles and we became an offense of Journeymen. But you make a great point that it wasnt lack of picks, it was misses. And I'm sure the coaching turnover didn't help these guys develop either.

We did draft some damn good linemen in that era though. I hope Ozzie remains the talent evaluator for that and linebacker.

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**Ravenswintitle** · 02-14-2019, 12:41 PM

It’s not all about the draft. You can’t ignore free agents

**bmorecareful** · 02-14-2019, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

It’s not all about the draft. You can’t ignore free agents

This. Not only did the Ravens draft more defenders (and more highly) if and when those defenders didn't work out, they quickly replaced them with FAs, many of them very pricey.

Also is there some reason that OL were not included in this list? I think the OP has a very specific idea of "building around the QB" in mind that I don't agree with

**InigoMontoya** · 02-14-2019, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

It’s not all about the draft. You can’t ignore free agents

I'll deal with those in a subsequent post, but try to find teams that got better free agent receivers than Mason or Steve Smith. Or the years we got from Boldin from that trade. Those receivers may have been older, but they were very productive.

The only free agent receivers that jump out at me from those teams listed are Brandin Cooks with the Patriots and Alshon Jeffrey with the Eagles. Their stats are comparable to Mason, Smith and Boldin while they were here.

Who are the big name skill position players that the Steelers, Falcons, Chargers, Packers, Giants, Chiefs and Saints got through free agency? I can't think of anyone significant.

* I did find one free agent pickup in Tony Gonzalez. That was fairly significant, even though he was at the end of his career.

**InigoMontoya** · 02-14-2019, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

This. Not only did the Ravens draft more defenders (and more highly) if and when those defenders didn't work out, they quickly replaced them with FAs, many of them very pricey.

Also is there some reason that OL were not included in this list? I think the OP has a very specific idea of "building around the QB" in mind that I don't agree with

I was dealing with the specific complaint that we didn't draft skill position players around Joe. I could expand this to offensive line, but since the Ravens drafted 5 offensive lineman in the first three rounds since 2009, I doubt the stats would change much.

**Bhcforlife** · 02-14-2019, 12:53 PM

Those numbers include Hurst and Andrews from this draft though. If you remove them, which I think you should (since by also drafting Jackson that signaled soon a move from Joe), that's 3 offensive skill players in the first 3 rounds since 2013, and 6 since 2009. Suddenly those numbers change and don't fit this narrative anymore.

edit: I didn't look at how removing the 2018 draft would impact other teams so maybe the numbers don't change that much?

There's also the fact they've had 18 picks in rds 1-3 from 2013-2017 and only used 3 on offensive skill players and 4 total on offense.

Have to disagree on this take.

**Bhcforlife** · 02-14-2019, 01:01 PM

Also, of those 3, or 5 if you want to include 2018, from 13-18, that was 4 TEs (!) and 1 WR. Great way to build up your offensive supporting cast. Even this past draft when they did appear to make a concentrated effort to improve the offense, they ignored Moore and Ridley for another fuckin' TE!

**InigoMontoya** · 02-14-2019, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Bhcforlife

Those numbers include Hurst and Andrews from this draft though. If you remove them, which I think you should (since by also drafting Jackson that signaled soon a move from Joe), that's 3 offensive skill players in the first 3 rounds since 2013, and 6 since 2009. Suddenly those numbers change and don't fit this narrative anymore.

edit: I didn't look at how removing the 2018 draft would impact other teams so maybe the numbers don't change that much?

There's also the fact they've had 18 picks in rds 1-3 from 2013-2017 and only used 3 on offensive skill players and 4 total on offense.

Have to disagree on this take.

Why would you remove Hurst and Andrews? Flacco was the starting QB when they were drafted. They were weapons added specifically to help him.

I can play this pick and choose game, too. From 2009 to 2014, Atlanta only chose 1 skill position player and 5 offensive players total in the first three rounds. Does that mean they weren't building around Matt Ryan? Nope, mainly because they hit a home run with that one pick (Julio Jones), made due with their running backs, and picked up Tony Gonzalez in free agency.

**pslholder96** · 02-14-2019, 01:11 PM

I was under the impression from this board that the ravens didn't build around Flacco not due to effort but simply because they failed spectacularly.

**ravensfan7716** · 02-14-2019, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by Bhcforlife

Those numbers include Hurst and Andrews from this draft though. If you remove them, which I think you should (since by also drafting Jackson that signaled soon a move from Joe), that's 3 offensive skill players in the first 3 rounds since 2013, and 6 since 2009. Suddenly those numbers change and don't fit this narrative anymore.

edit: I didn't look at how removing the 2018 draft would impact other teams so maybe the numbers don't change that much?

There's also the fact they've had 18 picks in rds 1-3 from 2013-2017 and only used 3 on offensive skill players and 4 total on offense.

Have to disagree on this take.

I would agree with poster above that the original poster of this thread was trying to suit his narrative that the Ravens did build around Flacco & the offense but the honest numbers disagree with that on draft picks. Not even adding the high priced aging vet free agents on defense that we have signed in place of the failed defensive selections.

Since 2009 (only the first three rounds of the draft)
Ravens have taken
13 offense compared to 17 players on defense.

Since 2013 (only the first three rounds of the draft)
Ravens have taken
7 offense compared to 11 on defense.

Take out the 2018 Draft. From 2013-2017 now.
Ravens select 3 offense compared to 11 defense.
-That is massive disparity

You can easily see the disparity almost twice as many defensive players. The front office focus on defense .vs building the offense after 2013 around their superbowl MVP QB.

The proof is there. It did not happen on draft day during those years.

Also one glaring aspect was years (2013, 2014, 2017 ) There was not 1 offensive selection within the first three rounds.
The only year there was no defensive players selected within the first three rounds was in 2018

**ravensfan7716** · 02-14-2019, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by pslholder96

I was under the impression from this board that the ravens didn't build around Flacco not due to effort but simply because they failed spectacularly.

Look at the numbers again. The OP worded it so to suit his narrative.

The real focus should have been since 2013 and yes it should have omitted (2018) which brings the numbers down even further. At the point of selecting Jackson the team was not building around Flacco any longer.

Take away the 2018 Draft and the numbers are Offense 3 players .vs 11 players on defense.