Is Lamar the answer, article from Tony?

[bmorebirds_24]

LOL.

Just the OPPOSITE (Joe gets ALL blame, never credit) is true FAR more often than this, both here and other boards around internet, sports talk, bars, etc......

You still see comments all over the internet about how Flacco sucked and the defense carried them to the SuperBowl (that fierce 23rd ranked defense, lol).

Joe is gone. He was ok when healthy, stepped up in post season usually.... No he isnt going to Canton, but he is STILL the best Raven QB in our history.

I guess it depends what angle you view it from. Most Flacco lovers I know praise Flacco for a win. He can have a horrible game and you’ll hear he won’t with no help from his WRs, he did what he had to, he’s a winner.

Lose the game -
Damn Defense
WR can’t catch passes
OC called horrible game
Officials have it out for Baltimore


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Roll Tide]

LOL.

Just the OPPOSITE (Joe gets ALL blame, never credit) is true FAR more often than this, both here and other boards around internet, sports talk, bars, etc......

You still see comments all over the internet about how Flacco sucked and the defense carried them to the SuperBowl (that fierce 23rd ranked defense, lol).

Joe is gone. He was ok when healthy, stepped up in post season usually.... No he isnt going to Canton, but he is STILL the best Raven QB in our history.

Nice post .....Also nobody ever mentions the sell off after winning the Super Bowl!


We poster can't argue with the facts they start spewing all kinds of crap to deflect from the actual subject. I am learning quickly that its the same on here.


Guys can argue how bad Joe sucks and then dismiss with fact that Lamar lead the league in fumbles with just starting 7 games, throws poorly, is inaccurate, and had a game far worse than Flacco ever had.

7 sacks, 1 int despite a limited # of throws, and 3 fumbles .... Any competent NFL coach would've pulled him and instead the Ravens essentially forfeited the game and season. ..... I know I know but Lamar looked good in the 4th quarter against the dreaded PREVENT DEFENSE that has costed the Ravens the playoffs the two previous seasons.....But again it was all Joe's fault

[TTRaven]

For the most part the Colts offense has been ran by 2 QBs. Manning and Luck are both franchise and likely HOF QBs.Yes there was a few seasons between the two and Luck missed a year due to injury.

The Ravens have been around slightly before Peyton was drafted and never have not had one.

To get such a player you need to be bad .....The Ravens for the most part find away to be middling in an off year which hurts in getting a guy like Lawrence.

I assumed Lawrence would be available next year after his sophomore season. Since he didn't redshirt he has to wait until after his junior season.

If he continues to develop he will be the first pick in the draft when eligible.

I've made up my mind about Lamars chances of improving and they are in line with Tony's thoughts in the article. I thought he was a terrible selection when we made it last season. There's a reason why 5 other QB starved teams passed on him and he was available.

I have no problem be wrong and watching Lamar win ....However it's to the advantage of the team long term if they are not going to win to be bad.

Constantly being stuck between 6-9 wins never gets you access to the elite prospects.

You’ve made up your mind about a guy that has started a whopping 8 games? Why not give the kid a legitimate chance to develop before you write him off?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Roll Tide]

Yes I agreed with the 1st one because he gave positive and negative thoughts. He was fair on both accounts. The other 1 was just stated negatives and basically implied that Lamar is trash and needs to be converted to WR. Everyone knows that won't happen, so what was the point of the comment?

Yes and that precisely why Lamar is 99% likely to bust! Like it or not his game has major flaws. If you watched the games and haven't drawn the conclusion then your looking through the Purple colored lenses!

Did he win games yes! Is the style sustainable? NO Is he likely to drastically improve? No (look at past history with QBs in regards to improved accuracy & fumbles). Not rooting against him but the odds are certainly not in his favor and none of these posts have discussed the high probability of a serious injury that the QB option will present 10-20 times per game!

[KevBA]

I guess it depends what angle you view it from. Most Flacco lovers I know praise Flacco for a win. He can have a horrible game and you’ll hear he won’t with no help from his WRs, he did what he had to, he’s a winner.

Lose the game -
Damn Defense
WR can’t catch passes
OC called horrible game
Officials have it out for Baltimore


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with the bolded!

There were several posters crowing about Jackson's win-loss record, crediting Jackson for the wins....but when posters brought up the idea Joe was 2-1 as a rookie in playoffs (vs LJ 0-1) they cried foul and said Joe didnt win the games- Defense did.

I have always been a Flacco defender against the unfair criticism. OTOH, I have never suggested he was anything more than a "decent" QB who usually steps up to another level in big games.

I understand we all have some bias. Whether in sports, politics, etc- fwiw, I at least try to always to at least have intellectual honesty- you will never see me tout W-L record for ONE QB, than say another didnt deserve his WL record. Either the QB gets credit or he doesnt..... It is a team sport. Dan Marino in my opinion is one of the very best of all time, but he has no rings. Eli has 2 of them. QBs get too much blame or credit for a team's record (HC is in same boat too).

[Roll Tide]

You’ve made up your mind about a guy that has started a whopping 8 games? Why not give the kid a legitimate chance to develop before you write him off?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TT ... I've stated my credentials earlier in my posting. As a new poster here I don't want to constantly be pumping you guys with it.


I am an accomplished football official and I cover 100 games per season on the field as a crew chief. Thats in addition to the college and pro games that I watch as fan over the 16 games that the Ravens play.

I don't conclude that it makes me a better poster than anyone here! I'm just pointing out why I feel I'm qualified to have an opinion on Lamar. Let me ask you this.... Even if the Ravens (had and I don't claim to know) a objective and concerned opinion about his weaknesses and future they would never say it.

As a Ravens fan I am not rooting against Lamar .... But I think this "Why not give the kid a legitimate chance to develop before you write him off" is really fools gold. QBs don't develop accuarcy, ball control skills, and football muscle memory at the pro level! I've stated facts about the completion percetages (see Below).

The possibility of more than modest improvement 2-3% in accuracy over his college rate is very very low! In addition, he has all of the other issues that have been discussed at great lenghts.

By development what happens is the game will slow down a bit for him. Improving his ability to read a defense and perhaps see open receivers.

Below are the completions percentages of the guys mentioned in your response! There is only a slight difference in Rodgers, Vick, and Mahomes! There is a modest 5% increase with Stafford and 6+% increase for Brees. Lamar is not a pocket passer like Brees or Stafford so they really arent comps for potential improvement IMO. Lamar was a 57% passer in college and as I said his improvement is likely 1-2 % or 58-59%.





Aaron Rodger Comp% College 63.8% NFL 64.8%

Mike Vick 56.0% 56.2%

Matt Stafford 57.1% 62%

Brees 61% 67.3%

Mahomes 63.5% 65% 

[TTRaven]

TT ... I've stated my credentials earlier in my posting. As a new poster here I don't want to constantly be pumping you guys with it.


I am an accomplished football official and I cover 100 games per season on the field as a crew chief. Thats in addition to the college and pro games that I watch as fan over the 16 games that the Ravens play.

I don't conclude that it makes me a better poster than anyone here! I'm just pointing out why I feel I'm qualified to have an opinion on Lamar. Let me ask you this.... Even if the Ravens (had and I don't claim to know) a objective and concerned opinion about his weaknesses and future they would never say it.

As a Ravens fan I am not rooting against Lamar .... But I think this "Why not give the kid a legitimate chance to develop before you write him off" is really fools gold. QBs don't develop accuarcy, ball control skills, and football muscle memory at the pro level! I've stated facts about the completion percetages (see Below).

The possibility of more than modest improvement 2-3% in accuracy over his college rate is very very low! In addition, he has all of the other issues that have been discussed at great lenghts.

By development what happens is the game will slow down a bit for him. Improving his ability to read a defense and perhaps see open receivers.

It’s a fan board. Every poster on here is qualified to have an opinion on Lamar.

You’re not rooting against Lamar yet on OH you literally said you hope he wins less than 4 games.

You’ve made up your mind about Lamar and that’s fine. Yes there are some concerns with his game, but the people that are actually paid to evaluate talent obviously think they’re correctable. Otherwise they wouldn’t have jumped back into round 1 to draft him.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KevBA]

It’s a fan board. Every poster on here is qualified to have an opinion on Lamar.

You’re not rooting against Lamar yet on OH you literally said you hope he wins less than 4 games.

You’ve made up your mind about Lamar and that’s fine. Yes there are some concerns with his game, but the people that are actually paid to evaluate talent obviously think they’re correctable. Otherwise they wouldn’t have jumped back into round 1 to draft him.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

People who are paid to evaluate can sometimes be totally correct! They also can be desperate to save their job, desperate to find a gem at a position of need and be looking through rose-colored glasses, falling in love with one trait while convincing themselves a deficiency isn't that bad.

Most of those paid to do this, the "experts" are quite bearish on Lamar as a passer due to his accuracy issues. Billick said they (Ravens) needed a franchise QB so bad that they fell in love with Boller's arm strength and justified overlooking his accuracy issues at CAL by blaming his teammates (yeah, those WR's he was throwing too really sucked). Many are wondering if history is repeating itself- take out Bollers arm strength and insert LJ's speed.....

Statistically, it is probable that LJ is a great athlete inserted at the QB position, rather than an athletic QB. There are very few who have succeeded in NFL in recent history with his stats (ie comp.pct) at college. But, he was their 1st round pick. He will (and should) be given the chance. He is a very likeable kid and a hard worker. He may buck the odds and succeed.

[Mmcclend]

Against ......
100% right and the reason Lamar's chance of being anything more than a 1st contract guy is less than 1%.

Part of his fumbling issues are his hands.... He has fumbled several snaps and I suspect its comparable to an infielder not having "soft Hands" in baseball. Plus the hand/keep option where the RB is attemtping to secure the ball when Lamar tries to keep it. Plus defense at the pro level focus as much on the strip as they do the tackle which is much different than in college IMO. Further, Why does he put his finger on the back nose of the ball when throwing? Bad habit or is his hand to small to grip the ball like most QBs do?

Working in Favor
Due to his physical gifts he shouldve been converted to a new position. Slashing style RB (pass catching) or WR. This is the problem that teams had with Tim Tebow who was/is still a better passer than Lamar. He should've converted to FB or TE in my opinion.

I don't think that the physical gifts (speed and elusiveness) can make up for all of the shortcomings in his game.

What positions should Josh Rosen, Josh Allen, and Sam Darnold switch too? Lamar has better passing stats than them.

Lamar can’t even catch the snap, how in the fuck is he going to play WR? He’s a QB just deal with it.

[Mmcclend]

You’ve made up your mind about a guy that has started a whopping 8 games? Why not give the kid a legitimate chance to develop before you write him off?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly. That dude must have a crystal ball or something lol. Talking about Lamar’s fumbling being a major problem(I agree) and then saying you want him to switch to WR is dumb as shit. HE CANT CATCH THE SNAP.

[Laxdad24]

You’ve made up your mind about a guy that has started a whopping 8 games? Why not give the kid a legitimate chance to develop before you write him off?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TT I see your point with the 8 games. But if I recall didn’t most of the league do the exact same thing with Jimmy G ? Only his perception was as a sure fire Winner. Hence the big contract in SF. His resume’at the time was what ...6-8games? It happens all the time.

Posted BatMan here by mistake. Sorry bro.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[trailhiker85]

You’ve made up your mind about a guy that has started a whopping 8 games? Why not give the kid a legitimate chance to develop before you write him off?

Wait ...you want to give time to a kid who just turned 22 to see if he can improve? And after we've watched him perform in eight whole games? You're counseling patience? What kind of radical are you?