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  1. #1
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    Casual Fandom, versus time and money commitment, and the booing

    I've been thinking about this a lot. I had tiny bit of insomnia that night after the game. Usually even the worst losses don't stick with me like that. And I was thinking why?

    This is what I've come up with.

    I'm a season ticket holder, section 501. I've had the PSL's for 8 years. I attended games pretty regularly even before that. I'm committed a good deal of money out of pocket at a time where I wasn't even making good money like I am now. Each sunday, with tailgating and post game, is a 9am to 6pm committment, minimum. Time. Money for tickets, parking, food, beer, in stadium stuff. Money for the gear, the swag etc. Time away from wife and kids. I'm NOT a casual fan.

    And so I'm pissed, I'm heartbroken, that they didn't bring in Flacco not because I don't love Lamar, but because it was time to do whatever you could do to win that game as a part of the bargain of this relationship between fanbase and team.

    Just, JUST as the fanbase was starting to get reignited, its not just that the game went poorly, its that you didn't do everything in your power to win. Harbaugh and co wanted to win YOUR way, and would rather lose than make the tough decision.

    The last time this team made a really, REALLY tough decision in order to win that wasn't forced by injury - was opening up of the offense 2nd half of AFCCG in 2012. Before that, it was firing Cam Cameron for a chance to win a superbowl. Before that, firing Billick. But this team, this culture has been unwilling to make the TOUGH decisions to win for a long time. Even keeping Harbaugh now - its a cop out. It's not the tough decision that needs to be made. We seem incapable of it.


    And so I think a lot of the, IMO, more casual fans at home, watching TV in the comfort of their homes, pausing the DVR, turning on and off the game, etc. Might think - why are they booing????? Why would they boo lamar? Those disloyal fans! Lamar got us here! HOW COULD THEY!


    But I think . . . as someone as invested as I am/feel . . . to see the team not do everything, EVERYTHING in their power to win . . . it disgusts me. I'm not a casual fan. Me and this team aren't "causally dating" where we see eachother when we want to, when we feel like it. I'm there every Sunday. I put my money in. My time in. I expect you to TRY to win. I'm sick of the band playing as the ship goes down. I think the NFL as a whole only has probably 5 teams at a time that are actually committed to WINNING for real. Able to make difficult decisions, etc. I think as NFL fans in general have realized this, fandom wanes. Too many teams, and we've become one of them, are trying to be entertaining, rather than really doing the damn thing. The Pats and the teams REALLY committed to winning wouldn't have gone down like that.


    I feel like usually at this point after a bad loss i'm coming out of the funk. Because I can take a loss where i know my guys tried, really tried everything within reason to win. But not this one. I think it may be time for a breakup. Maybe its time for me to be a casual fan, and watch from TV, and let a new group of young bucks lead the charge at the stadium. Seeing my team not pull out the kitchen sink to win for me has me feeling burnt out. Don't care if the PSL market has cratered. Might just be sunk cost.


    Forget playing like Raven. Play like a WINNER. Coach like a WINNER. Stop playing at winning, and get to the business of winning. Or else you won't beat the teams like the Pats are are about that life.


    I feel alienated.
    Last edited by ClericBlackDave; 01-08-2019 at 02:37 PM.





  2. #2

    Re: Casual Fandom, versus time and money commitment, and the booing

    I don't live in Baltimore anymore - moved to the SW. I had season tickets to the Colts back in the 70s - the Bert Jones years. I loved every minute of it - even when they lost - because they gave it their all. I was there for the Oakland game (we lost) and felt good about it because they were our team and we were the team. Bert played half a season with broken ribs one year - and he never missed a beat.

    I wouldn't waste 1 dime of my money on a Ravens tickets. As far as I'm concerned Harbaugh is the biggest phoney in the NFL. If he hadn't had Ray and Ed he wouldn't have gotten anywhere near a playoff game let alone a Superbowl. He can take his mighty men and run Biscotti's team right into the ground if Biscotti is stupid enough to let him do it. I'll spend my money somewhere else.





  3. #3

    Re: Casual Fandom, versus time and money commitment, and the booing

    Good post Dave.

    I really felt that the coaching staff, particularly Harbs and Marty, showed a total disrespect to the fan base with an outright lazy gameplan.





  4. #4
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    Re: Casual Fandom, versus time and money commitment, and the booing

    I feel your pain, CBD, I do. But I think the notion that they weren’t doing everything they could to win that game is absurd. They admitted they talked about putting Joe in, and they unanimously decided that was not the best move.

    They were probably correct too, as Lamar eventually did lead the team on two long TD drives and had the ball back with the chance for a winning score. It is *possible* Joe could have done that as well.

    But given that:
    - Joe hadn’t taken a snap in two months;
    - When Joe last was playing, the offense was stinking up the joint against Carolina and Pittsburgh;
    - Lamar was sacked seven times, and managed to escape another 4 or 5 that Joe most likely would not have escaped;
    - The plays Joe would be running had not been practiced in a very long time by the rest of the team;

    Given all these things, it is much more likely we would have lost by more than we did if they had put Joe in.

    Of course we will never know for sure what would have happened. But we can be 100% sure they made the decision they made because they felt for those reasons Lamar gave us the best chance to win. As much as you and I and other hardcore Ravens fans wanted to win that game, the players and the coaches wanted it even more.
    "Chin up, chest out."





  5. #5
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    Re: Casual Fandom, versus time and money commitment, and the booing

    My rallying cry over the last few weeks was BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

    When you approach a game (especially a playoff game) this way, it means as a coach I don't give a damn who I piss off. The only goal is to advance. If Harbs was worried about Lamar's confidence, that was misplaced. If Flacco give you a better chance at that point, DO IT.

    They did not do what they needed to by any means necessary. Now that we know MM did basically NOTHING to plan for this game, and that they made no in-game adjustments, I'm pissed because we essentially threw the game away. I paid $216 to watch them throw the game away. And while I was doing this, I nearly got into 2 separate shouting matches with guys who don't understand some basic etiquette around attending games at stadiums, including:

    - Do not get up to get a beer and force people down the aisle (me) to get up, blocking my view, JUST BEFORE an important play like a goal line 3rd down or a FG attempt.
    - Do not stand at the top of the concourse and block the view of people just behind you (me). I am trying to watch the fucking game! If I wanted to watch the big monitors I would have saved my money and stayed home.

    It's shit like this that makes going to games less enjoyable.


    WORLD CHAMPIONS 2000 * 2012





  6. #6
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    Re: Casual Fandom, versus time and money commitment, and the booing

    Quote Originally Posted by HotInHere View Post
    I feel your pain, CBD, I do. But I think the notion that they weren’t doing everything they could to win that game is absurd. They admitted they talked about putting Joe in, and they unanimously decided that was not the best move.

    They were probably correct too, as Lamar eventually did lead the team on two long TD drives and had the ball back with the chance for a winning score. It is *possible* Joe could have done that as well.

    But given that:
    - Joe hadn’t taken a snap in two months;
    - When Joe last was playing, the offense was stinking up the joint against Carolina and Pittsburgh;
    - Lamar was sacked seven times, and managed to escape another 4 or 5 that Joe most likely would not have escaped;
    - The plays Joe would be running had not been practiced in a very long time by the rest of the team;

    Given all these things, it is much more likely we would have lost by more than we did if they had put Joe in.

    Of course we will never know for sure what would have happened. But we can be 100% sure they made the decision they made because they felt for those reasons Lamar gave us the best chance to win. As much as you and I and other hardcore Ravens fans wanted to win that game, the players and the coaches wanted it even more.

    if you check out the thread about Gary Williams above, the consensus from the ex-players in the box, including Ray Ray who DOES NOT like Flacco "like that", is that Flacco needed to go in. Its common sense. It's what your eyes were telling you.

    "Check out the latest podcast episode from The Tony Kornheiser Show. "Your first-place Birmingham Bearcats."

    One of the guests is former Terps basketball coach Gary Williams, who is buddies with Steve Bisciotti and was in the owners box. Kornheiser asked Gary what the conversation was like when Lamar was struggling.

    Gary never reveals what Steve said. But he does mention that Ray Lewis was also in the box, and Gary describes that Ray was drapping an arm around Steve's shoulders and is in his ear saying, "we got to go with Flacco."

    No report on how Steve actually reacted. Gary did say there were a number of former players there, and the consensus seemed to be they needed to make the change."





  7. #7
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    Re: Casual Fandom, versus time and money commitment, and the booing

    Quote Originally Posted by camdenyard View Post
    My rallying cry over the last few weeks was BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

    When you approach a game (especially a playoff game) this way, it means as a coach I don't give a damn who I piss off. The only goal is to advance. If Harbs was worried about Lamar's confidence, that was misplaced. If Flacco give you a better chance at that point, DO IT.

    They did not do what they needed to by any means necessary. Now that we know MM did basically NOTHING to plan for this game, and that they made no in-game adjustments, I'm pissed because we essentially threw the game away. I paid $216 to watch them throw the game away.

    They broke the covenant between team and fan. The fan credo says we deserve the best effort of players and coaches on and off the field, or whatever. Instead we got coaching malpractice.


    Defense played lights out. Specials teams had issues, but blocked a punt and a FG. if you told me all of this, and said we would lose, before the game Sunday, I'd have been inconsolable then too.





  8. #8
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    Re: Casual Fandom, versus time and money commitment, and the booing

    Quote Originally Posted by camdenyard View Post
    My rallying cry over the last few weeks was BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY.

    When you approach a game (especially a playoff game) this way, it means as a coach I don't give a damn who I piss off. The only goal is to advance. If Harbs was worried about Lamar's confidence, that was misplaced. If Flacco give you a better chance at that point, DO IT.

    They did not do what they needed to by any means necessary. Now that we know MM did basically NOTHING to plan for this game, and that they made no in-game adjustments, I'm pissed because we essentially threw the game away. I paid $216 to watch them throw the game away.
    This is where I am at, especially post-game with what has come out from the Chargers about knowing our plays, tendencies, etc. And with that, they have officially lost me as a paying fan if they keep Marty around. The minute they announce Marty is staying my PSLs will be on the marketplace. The decision has already been made. I can deal with a lot, and have in my 15+ years having PSLs, but I can't stomach losing because your offensive staff was either too lazy to scout themselves and find these tendencies out or so arrogant to think they could do the exact same thing they did two weeks prior and win - and then continue to be that arrogant during the game to literally change nothing even as it was entirely obvious what they were doing wasn't working.
    back on twitter

    "Well that was an appropriate last ride for Pees. A Bengals WR streaking in for a game winning touchdown in the closing minutes is the man’s preferred medium to express his art." - GreenWave52





  9. #9
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    Re: Casual Fandom, versus time and money commitment, and the booing

    You have a rookie QB who clearly had nerves in his first playoff game and an offense that had -2 yards passing well into the second half. In the third quarter alone they had -13 yards passing. You had a veteran QB on the bench who is known for doing well in the playoffs and far exceeding expectations in the playoffs. Even in 2014, most fans didn't expect Flacco to play as well as he did in those two playoff games. Put him in. If he sucks, he sucks, but at least everyone can see that you tried everything. The decision they made reeked of 'Next season', not 'Next week', after being fed a bill of goods, as the OP alluded to, the second half of the season, that this was all about winning this year.
    "Please take with you this final sword, The Excellector. I am praying that your journey will be guided by the light", Leon Shore





  10. #10
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    Re: Casual Fandom, versus time and money commitment, and the booing

    ClericBlackDave, I hear you. I'm a season ticket holder since 2000, and like you I attended many games even before that. It was so disappointing that they left Flacco on the bench when Lamar was clearly struggling. They obviously weren't at all comfortable with Lamar throwing the ball, yet there Joe sat. It was just crazy.

    I'll add this to the stadium etiquette comments... I brought my 8 year old to the game for his first game this season. I explained to him before the game that he's going to hear some "colorful language" (But it's not like he hasn't heard shit before). Some fans around me didn't disappoint. smh Yea I get it's a rowdy game and people are drinking etc, etc,etc. But that never stopped me from toning back a little with other people's kids around. Not much the Ravens can do about that. It doesn't however inspire me to renew my tickets every year. But I will add when I bought tickets in New England one year they had family sections. Not a bad idea at if anyone from the Ravens reads this.





  11. #11

    Re: Casual Fandom, versus time and money commitment, and the booing

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhcforlife View Post
    This is where I am at, especially post-game with what has come out from the Chargers about knowing our plays, tendencies, etc. And with that, they have officially lost me as a paying fan if they keep Marty around. The minute they announce Marty is staying my PSLs will be on the marketplace. The decision has already been made. I can deal with a lot, and have in my 15+ years having PSLs, but I can't stomach losing because your offensive staff was either too lazy to scout themselves and find these tendencies out or so arrogant to think they could do the exact same thing they did two weeks prior and win - and then continue to be that arrogant during the game to literally change nothing even as it was entirely obvious what they were doing wasn't working.
    I feel like you (and everyone else here) have said they've lost you as a paying fan every year now. If you aren't quitting after 3 straight non-playoff seasons, you aren't quitting after a division title. You'll calm down.

    Also OP, the idea that the team isn't "trying" to win just because they aren't making the specific decision you want them to make is laughable. They aren't openly sabotaging the team just the spite you.





  12. #12
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    Re: Casual Fandom, versus time and money commitment, and the booing

    Quote Originally Posted by GaTechRavens View Post
    I feel like you (and everyone else here) have said they've lost you as a paying fan every year now. If you aren't quitting after 3 straight non-playoff seasons, you aren't quitting after a division title. You'll calm down.
    I have, you are absolutely right. The difference would be during the Pees years - last year I had everything filled out and was about to put them up before I changed my mind - I always felt like even though they lost, they still gave it their best effort, as the fan credo says. And I just don't know that I feel that way about Sunday, and I'm not just speaking to the Flacco decision. Just the loss on the surface, I'd probably get over. But this stuff the Chargers have said which can be seen on game film as being true, is a lot harder for me to take.

    We'll see.
    back on twitter

    "Well that was an appropriate last ride for Pees. A Bengals WR streaking in for a game winning touchdown in the closing minutes is the man’s preferred medium to express his art." - GreenWave52





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