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  1. #1
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    Intuitive decision making and robo-quarterbacks

    Holy shit. This is the most insightful thing I've ever heard about QB evaluation. Intuitive qualities. A "cover your ass" mentality. Risk derision from fans, media and colleagues.

    WOW.


    Matt Waldman’s RSP Cast Ep. 44: Bill Walsh, Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, and Quarterback Evaluation
    43 min podcast
    https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2019/01/1...ck-evaluation/

    The Judy Battista story that Waldman references right at the top, is here:

    ~10 mins:
    "If you're always just trying to get the right answer according to convention, you're going to wind up with a checkdown. When you're a coach or you're thinking from a coaching mindset, the right answer eventually, for every play, is a checkdown. But that's not what's gonna create success."
    ~ 12 mins:
    "Every so often there's gonna be teams that risk earning derision from fans, media and colleagues. An NFL organization is gonna veer from the established template of the robo-quarterbacks rolling off that college assembly line..."
    The first 22+ mins are all about this QB evaluation stuff, and how it relates to Patrick Mahomes. Fucking amazing.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Changes gears to talking about Lamar at the 23:00 mark of the tape, to about the 34 min mark.

    Very harsh on the Ravens conservative simplistic play-calling in the first ~3 quarters of the playoff game. Also on the O-line (esp James Hurst). Said the Ravens abandoned a huge batch of what they had done successfully in earlier games. Draw plays and blocking stuff and so forth. Just ditched it. "The whole thing was kinda odd." Notes that they finally started having success when they took the shackles off Lamar: too little too late.

    Makes me wonder if Marty M just froze.

    ~32 mins:
    Fucking HAMMERS Brian Billick as an evaluator of QBs, politely but firmly, at a little past the 32 min mark. Calm and even-toned but utterly savage.

    ~34 mins:
    Compares Baker HOF starting, and sounds a cautionary note about his decision-making.

    Returns to Lamar just ahead of the 38 min mark, and says:

    "I worry that the Ravens will not let Lamar Jackson totally be who he is, and allow him to grow to be what he can be as a passer. Cuz he really is a better passer than they've shown, because they wanted to really exploit his legs. And so I'm worried that they might be limiting him to a degree. And that's what my concern is. Less about Lamar Jackson than about the team he's with."
    Then returns to the silliness of NFL QB evaluation. Wraps up with this on quarterbacking at about

    ~39:40:
    It's a performance craft. It's done on a stage. Creativity and intuition are important parts of it.





  2. #2
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    Re: Intuitive decision making and robo-quarterbacks

    You're welcome, Ex. That second to last quote, beginning "I worry that..." is EXACTLY what you repeat every 5 mins.





  3. #3
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    Re: Intuitive decision making and robo-quarterbacks

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to JimZipCode again.
    Last edited by edromeo; 01-28-2019 at 12:43 PM.





  4. #4
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    Re: Intuitive decision making and robo-quarterbacks

    I guess it just makes me worry what the approach is going to be with an offensive coordinator who is very good at running the ball.

    I mean none of this was new. A lot of us saw this, espeically in the LAC game. They didn't call a good game and they didn't adjust to what they were seeing, which is why the Chargers played 2 coverages against us the entire game.

    We know they need to develop him as a passer. But when they promote Roman and I hear John Harbaugh say they're going to focus on the run it definitely makes me concerned after the amoutn of times Lamar ran the ball last year.

    Honestly, this just makes me even more nervous than I was last week.
    "Cause if you ain’t pissed off for greatness, that just means you’re okay with being mediocre, and ain’t no man in here okay with just basic.”
    - Ray Lewis

    https://www.baltimoreravens.com/author/cole-jackson

    Twitter: @ColeJacksonFB





  5. #5
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    Re: Intuitive decision making and robo-quarterbacks

    I will add, I understand why they did what they did.

    The circumstances of Lamar taking over so late in the season and wanting to win-now made the gameplan the obvious choice.

    I also don't think Roman can't develop a passing offense.

    I guess I just wanted John to say more about developing a pass offense rather than saying we're going to run the ball. That's all.

    I would have preferred "Yeah we have this young QB who can do some pretty amazing things. We are looking forward to developing him into the complete package".

    That would have shut me up. Hearing 'run the ball' just annoyed me.
    Last edited by GreatWhiteNorthRaven; 01-28-2019 at 12:35 PM.
    "Cause if you ain’t pissed off for greatness, that just means you’re okay with being mediocre, and ain’t no man in here okay with just basic.”
    - Ray Lewis

    https://www.baltimoreravens.com/author/cole-jackson

    Twitter: @ColeJacksonFB





  6. #6
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    Re: Intuitive decision making and robo-quarterbacks

    Ty, for posting this JZ. I'm not sure how many people will give it a listen but it was very good info. I've been a fan of Waldman for awhile.

    I was trying to pinpoint some of the exact plays and concepts that were missing from Martywhig's gameplans in a few of the 'closer look' threads.

    Matt mentions how the Chargers gameplan was kinda incomplete because of their were concepts that the Marty used before (that worked) and they were missing from the gameplan in the Charger's game.

    No empty set, no screens, no RB target routes, no spread formation slants etc. I don't wanna be a broken record but the threads are out there...

    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Jumping to the topic of scouting group think. There is certainly the 'type' bias that Matt mentions in the scouting community where they look for checklist of traits or 'style' of play. And when a QB doesn't fit that mold they aren't appreciated by the scouting community and they look for holes. Imho one of the generic claims lobbed at QBs that don't fit the type is to knock their 'accuracy'. I recall people killing Watson for his accuracy with literally no support. And I believe Lamar faces the same knock on his accuracy even though its more 'statistically' warranted then with Watson.
    ----------------------------------------------------------

    Lamar's traits in relation to Bill Walsh:
    I also agree with his characterization of Lamar. I actually have the book: Finding the Winning Edge. Its the best football book I've EVER read PERIOD.

    And I posted this before in one/few of the Lamar threads:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Walsh
    The single trait that separates great quarterbacks from good quarterbacks is the ability to make the great, spontaneous decision, especially at a crucial time. The clock is running down and your team is five points behind. The play that was called has broken down and 22 players are moving in almost unpredictable directions all over the field.

    This is where the great quarterback uses his experience, vision, mobility and what we will call spontaneous genius. He makes something good happen.
    He also said this:

    If a review of film indicates that the QB is able to locate his secondary receiver (or even an emergency-outlet receiver on occasion) with ease, or with a sense of urgency, this player has a chance to be a consistent performer in the NFL
    For those that watched Lamar in college or even those that read some of the scouting reports on Lamar they know that Lamar displayed this ability. In fact PFF rated him as having the highest accuracy % when throwing to the secondary receivers.





  7. #7

    Re: Intuitive decision making and robo-quarterbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorthRaven View Post
    I will add, I understand why they did what they did.

    The circumstances of Lamar taking over so late in the season and wanting to win-now made the gameplan the obvious choice.

    I also don't think Roman can't develop a passing offense.

    I guess I just wanted John to say more about developing a pass offense rather than saying we're going to run the ball. That's all.

    I would have preferred "Yeah we have this young QB who can do some pretty amazing things. We are looking forward to developing him into the complete package".

    That would have shut me up. Hearing 'run the ball' just annoyed me.
    IIRC, Harbaugh said he wanted to:

    1) Run to set up the pass.
    2) Play action.
    3) Go into standard pocket passing plays.

    I'm fine with them doing this as long as when we pass, we do it well. I'd like to see around an 8 YPA for Lamar, and a higher TD rate. If we do that, we can still be run first. We'll just also be effecient and effective in passing.

    The last few years have shown that throwing all the time doesn't always translate to passing well or getting points off those throws. It's all about making the most of it when you pass. Running well should give us opportunities to get big plays downfield with play action.





  8. #8
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    Re: Intuitive decision making and robo-quarterbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post
    I actually have the book: Finding the Winning Edge. Its the best football book I've EVER read PERIOD.
    I'd kill for a chance to read that book. I can't believe it's never been brought back in to print.

    Annoyed with myself: man, it would have been so easy to buy copies when it was released! I bought one or two of his other books. Crazy that I missed this one.





  9. #9
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    Re: Intuitive decision making and robo-quarterbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    I'd kill for a chance to read that book. I can't believe it's never been brought back in to print.

    Annoyed with myself: man, it would have been so easy to buy copies when it was released! I bought one or two of his other books. Crazy that I missed this one.
    I got my copy for $100 bucks when I was considered going into coaching.





  10. Re: Intuitive decision making and robo-quarterbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    I'd kill for a chance to read that book. I can't believe it's never been brought back in to print.

    Annoyed with myself: man, it would have been so easy to buy copies when it was released! I bought one or two of his other books. Crazy that I missed this one.
    Unless I'm missing something, it's for sale on Amazon. Different book, maybe?





  11. #11
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    Re: Intuitive decision making and robo-quarterbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by blueridgemtnman View Post
    Unless I'm missing something, it's for sale on Amazon. Different book, maybe?
    If you have $300 burning a hole in your wallet





  12. Re: Intuitive decision making and robo-quarterbacks

    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post
    If you have $300 burning a hole in your wallet
    LOL....it wasn't me wanting to buy it.





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