Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 6789 LastLast
Results 85 to 96 of 104

Thread: Drew Brees

  1. #85

    Re: Drew Brees

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenstatsman View Post
    Brees was fairly average his first 5 years in the league. It wasn't until he hooked up with Peyton that he became good.

    I don't think you can point to any offensive coach or scheme that lead to the success of Brady and P. Manning. They led elite offenses with defensive-minded HCs.
    I disagree. His first 3 years in San Diego were below average but by year 4 he was very good with 27 td's and 7 int with about 3k yards and a 104 qb rating with 65% completion percentage and made his first pro bowl. Year 5, his last in SD he had 24 td's 15 int with about 3500 yards and an 89 qb rating. At that point SD had already drafted Rivers in 2004 before Brees had his breakout year with 27 td's etc..so there was the feeling that Brees within the organization within the first 3 years that Brees was not their guy then he has two very good years and then hurts his shoulder and they decided to move on with Rivers. Now nobody expected Brees to become what he did with NO but to say that it is scheme and Sean payton is not a good argument to discount Brees' accomplishments. That scheme and offense would not be effective with many other quarterbacks because of execution. You cant put joey Harrington in that offense and have him perform to Brees' level.

    And you cant overlook motivation here either. Brees was a guy who thought he had proven himself in SD and they turned him away, then Miami turned him away and NO takes a chance on him, the man has a tenacious personality and was determined to prove the chargers and everyone else wrong, that can go a long way. Its the same with Brady as a 6th round pick. That is motivating for someone with the right personality.

    The whole scheme thing or dome thing to me is a lazy argument to try to take away from his career and it doesnt hold weight with me. Tom Brady has played with Mcdaniels for a large part of his career (and his best years) nobody says that it is solely because of mcdaniels. Peyton is another story because he was the offensive coordinator in his prime. Has playing with Payton helped Brees? Sure but its not the chief reason why Brees has done what he has done imho





  2. #86

    Re: Drew Brees

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon King Onaga View Post
    Manning came into the league with offensive weapons waiting on him and it still took him six years to win his first playoff game. Some of his playoff performances were downright bad. Even the year they won the Super Bowl, Manning won a playoff game without scoring a touchdown in it. The year they lost, Manning threw the game ending interception. I think that Peyton Manning is, without question, a First-Ballot Hall of Fame QB. However, he too had quite of a bit of help in building that offense, from the weapons he was given, to the consistency of having Tom Moore by his side. It really wasn't until the Manning rule that his playoff success started to change overall, although he had one a couple of games already, by that point.
    He had good weapons but not really a great offensive line.

    Especially by the end of the time with the Colts. If you want to see a masterclass in how a QB can mitigate the effects of a leaky line, Manning is the guy.

    Manning also really re-introduced the idea that the QB can call plays and put the defense in bad situations by calling audibles every play. Manning is a true field general. Brees developed those skills later, but his success is mostly due to running and executing Peyton's play call.





  3. #87

    Re: Drew Brees

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravensforce83 View Post
    I disagree. His first 3 years in San Diego were below average but by year 4 he was very good with 27 td's and 7 int with about 3k yards and a 104 qb rating with 65% completion percentage and made his first pro bowl. Year 5, his last in SD he had 24 td's 15 int with about 3500 yards and an 89 qb rating. At that point SD had already drafted Rivers in 2004 before Brees had his breakout year with 27 td's etc..so there was the feeling that Brees within the organization within the first 3 years that Brees was not their guy then he has two very good years and then hurts his shoulder and they decided to move on with Rivers. Now nobody expected Brees to become what he did with NO but to say that it is scheme and Sean payton is not a good argument to discount Brees' accomplishments. That scheme and offense would not be effective with many other quarterbacks because of execution. You cant put joey Harrington in that offense and have him perform to Brees' level.

    And you cant overlook motivation here either. Brees was a guy who thought he had proven himself in SD and they turned him away, then Miami turned him away and NO takes a chance on him, the man has a tenacious personality and was determined to prove the chargers and everyone else wrong, that can go a long way. Its the same with Brady as a 6th round pick. That is motivating for someone with the right personality.

    The whole scheme thing or dome thing to me is a lazy argument to try to take away from his career and it doesnt hold weight with me. Tom Brady has played with Mcdaniels for a large part of his career (and his best years) nobody says that it is solely because of mcdaniels. Peyton is another story because he was the offensive coordinator in his prime. Has playing with Payton helped Brees? Sure but its not the chief reason why Brees has done what he has done imho
    Uh I think Brees is likely a top 15 QB of all time. Why are you bringing up Joey Harrington?





  4. #88

    Re: Drew Brees

    Quote Originally Posted by HbgPARavenfan View Post
    One cant consider Marino one of the GOATs without putting Brees as a top 5 QB.

    It goes back to the LBJ vs MJ debate...what makes somone the GOAT or one of the GOATs.... is it sustained domination and excellence compared to his peers, or is it simply hardware.

    Brees is absolutely one of the best passer's of all time. I'd argue he was more talented and a Better QB than Manning. Id argue he's more talented than Brady.

    Does that mean he's the GOAT, are Brees and Marino simply the best because they threw better than anyone ever? What about the Montana vs Elway debate.....is it talent or hardware?

    When you say Brees is more talented than Brady and Manning, what skills and abilities does he specifically bring to the table that are superior to those two?





  5. Re: Drew Brees

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenstatsman View Post
    The Saints have never had a dominant #1 WR but always invested heavily in offense, especially O-Line. They needed great guard play for many years to keep DL from batting down Brees's passes.
    Something I wish the Ravens would have done. It just makes sense. Brees has some mobility to him, but is largely a pocket passing QB. If you're going to build your offense around a QB, build to his strengths and make him the focal point. Payton did that immediately. Here, the defense was the focal point, so I understood them not doing it right away. However, as the defense aged, we just never saw the transition. Brees has good movement in the pocket and just needs a deep pocket to step into his throws. So, they keep a high quality interior line in front of him. Flacco is not as mobile, but another pocket passer who needs interior pressure out of his face. These things should be basic.





  6. Re: Drew Brees

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenstatsman View Post
    He had good weapons but not really a great offensive line.

    Especially by the end of the time with the Colts. If you want to see a masterclass in how a QB can mitigate the effects of a leaky line, Manning is the guy.

    Manning also really re-introduced the idea that the QB can call plays and put the defense in bad situations by calling audibles every play. Manning is a true field general. Brees developed those skills later, but his success is mostly due to running and executing Peyton's play call.
    However, much like with Tom Brady, the system allowed for Manning to make the offensive line look better than it was. It was a simplistic system with Manning's smoke and mirror. Death by a thousand slants and comebacks, setting up the slant-and-go, stop-and-go and out-and-up.





  7. #91

    Re: Drew Brees

    Quote Originally Posted by HbgPARavenfan View Post
    One cant consider Marino one of the GOATs without putting Brees as a top 5 QB.

    It goes back to the LBJ vs MJ debate...what makes somone the GOAT or one of the GOATs.... is it sustained domination and excellence compared to his peers, or is it simply hardware.

    Brees is absolutely one of the best passer's of all time. I'd argue he was more talented and a Better QB than Manning. Id argue he's more talented than Brady.

    Does that mean he's the GOAT, are Brees and Marino simply the best because they threw better than anyone ever? What about the Montana vs Elway debate.....is it talent or hardware?
    Exellent point! It is such a difficult argument. Brady makes it easy because he has stats and hardware but football is a game with so many elements. Coaching is more crucial in football than any other of the top sports. Personally I considered Marino the GOAT when I watched him play in the early 90's but I was also a kid albeit a kid that understood football so take that with a grain of salt. But I have never really fully been on board with the hardware argument although I understand it. As far as Marino goes I totally get why people say well he doesnt have a ring ok but what chaps my ass is that nowadays the argument has turned into "well he ONLY has one ring" ok and that is a championship (did it with Peyton for mosy of his career and thats a knock against Brees now and may be for Rodgers very soon) I think that comes from Brady spoiling us and making the thought that to be the GOAT you have to have several. Again I think it depends on team, coaching, talent around the guy (as we see with joe)so for that I am not one to say hardware is the be all end all.





  8. #92

    Re: Drew Brees

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon King Onaga View Post
    However, much like with Tom Brady, the system allowed for Manning to make the offensive line look better than it was. It was a simplistic system with Manning's smoke and mirror. Death by a thousand slants and comebacks, setting up the slant-and-go, stop-and-go and out-and-up.
    No it's not the system, it's the QB's intelligence and ability to read what the defense is doing based on their formation. Then calling the correct play or making an adjustment.

    It is a skill that those QB's developed. Most NFL QB's now at least can do this somewhat, even rookies coming in.





  9. #93

    Re: Drew Brees

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenstatsman View Post
    Uh I think Brees is likely a top 15 QB of all time. Why are you bringing up Joey Harrington?
    He was the first crappy quarteback to come to mind (apparently I'm stuck in 2005). Was just trying to make a point that good scheme has to be paired with talent





  10. #94

    Re: Drew Brees

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravensforce83 View Post
    He was the first crappy quarteback to come to mind (apparently I'm stuck in 2005). Was just trying to make a point that good scheme has to be paired with talent
    OK fair enough. I didn't make it clear I think Brees is an all-time great, but a notch below Manning and Brady.





  11. Re: Drew Brees

    Quote Originally Posted by BHSU View Post
    For those saying Manning is great, this and that, oh he's the top QB and a bunch of other BS.... Manning choked A LOT. I'd argue that he is the greatest in one aspect... choking.

    And for those saying his offensive lines sucked... HAHAHA..... BS. He had Tarik Glenn and Jeff Saturday for a lot of years.
    Also fair points.





  12. Re: Drew Brees

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenstatsman View Post
    Especially by the end of the time with the Colts. If you want to see a masterclass in how a QB can mitigate the effects of a leaky line, Manning is the guy.
    Does it involve cursing at his RB for failing to pick up the blitzing LB? (Colts-Ravens playoff game, click at your own peril)
    Shared Google Folder with Ravens spreadsheets, nextGen charts, and more! Please share my content! (attribution to Twitter requested)

    Knight of the Kingdom of Perfect Play, Student of The Bill James School of Stamping Out Bullshit. Main Sources: PFR, particularly the Play Index; for cap stuff, RSR's Brian McFarland (secondary: OverTheCap, Spotrac)





Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Link To Mobile Site
var infolinks_pid = 3297965; var infolinks_wsid = 0; //—->