Your thoughts on this case, was the father justified?

[Ortizer]

I’ll add in this little tidbit...

IMO, it’s almost impossible to know how any of us would react if something like this happened to YOUR child. On a political message board, we can assume all day that we would be measured and react maturely. It 100% would be different if the victim was your baby.

I’m positive my reaction wouldn’t be good because that’s just how I am.

What happened in this scenario is a parent’s worst nightmare potentially coming true. I don’t fault the father whatsoever.

I definitely agree with this.

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[ravenmaniac4life]

yeah it was a parents worse nightmare. their child was beat to death.

I do agree that when actually in the situation i feel a lot would act differently. I dont think the majority of people are so on edge that when their daughter is in the back seat safely retelling a story, where nothing happened theyd go beat somebody up, especially when it was already being handled.

With all due respect...when I asked you if you had children, I knew you didn’t. I could tell by your response to this story.

IMO, having a child and reading about something like this...it’s terrifying. Only a parent would understand that emotion. Are all parents the same? Not at all. Some parent are ok with their kids getting polio because vaccines are evil. Most parents that I know would’ve beaten this dude’s ass. When it comes to our babies (they’ll always be our babies)...it’s intensely emotional and the parental instinct to protect/defend is intensely emotional.

Let this be a lesson to any douche bag that preys on children. Somewhere a father will go through hellfire and brimstone (said in JR voice) to destroy you. Leave our kids alone!

[JAB1985]

With all due respect...when I asked you if you had children, I knew you didn’t. I could tell by your response to this story.

IMO, having a child and reading about something like this...it’s terrifying. Only a parent would understand that emotion. Are all parents the same? Not at all. Some parent are ok with their kids getting polio because vaccines are evil. Most parents that I know would’ve beaten this dude’s ass. When it comes to our babies (they’ll always be our babies)...it’s intensely emotional and the parental instinct to protect/defend is intensely emotional.

I get that, even without children, I get that feeling with my wife, my nephews/niece, its family and family is family and we try to protect our own. However, my response was completely rational and legally speaking, correct. being a parent shouldnt make you do illegal things, which is why i added that i dont believe most people saying they would act similarly, would have. You can certainly argue that your emotions got the better of you, but I dont think thats going to be a good legal defense.

[ravenmaniac4life]

I get that, even without children, I get that feeling with my wife, my nephews/niece, its family and family is family and we try to protect our own. However, my response was completely rational and legally speaking, correct. being a parent shouldnt make you do illegal things, which is why i added that i dont believe most people saying they would act similarly, would have. You can certainly argue that your emotions got the better of you, but I dont think thats going to be a good legal defense.

I’m pretty sure every parent on this forum will back me up on this...

If our child is assaulted or someone attempts to assault our child...a parent won’t give 2 shits about “the legal way to proceed.”

[JAB1985]

I’m pretty sure every parent on this forum will back me up on this...

If our child is assaulted or someone attempts to assault our child...a parent won’t give 2 shits about “the legal way to proceed.”

if you child is assaulted or attempted to be assaulted... thats not what happened.

[ravenmaniac4life]

if you child is assaulted or attempted to be assaulted... thats not what happened.

JAB, if you had a child and someone followed them into a bathroom and tried to get into the stall your child was using...IMO, you would feel a lot differently.

Then again...maybe you wouldn’t. I have no clue what kind of parent you’d be. Maybe you wouldn’t beat someone’s ass if they attempted to assault your kids because it wouldn’t be best way to legally proceed. I personally don’t know anyone like that...but...maybe that is how you’d react.

To each their own.

[JAB1985]

Sorry you are totally overlooking what happened.

You keep trying to say him being mentally ill he some how accidentally walked into the wrong room and accidentally pulled on the door handle not knowing a teenage girl was occupying the stall. Like his actions were somehow justified by him either being mentally ill or somehow mistakenly in the wrong bathroom.

Had the stall door not been locked, its quite possible this teenage girl might have been assaulted, raped and or murdered. His actions without a doubt would someone constitute or violate some kind of law. By all accounts he was trying to get at a young vulnerable girl.

Most likely this guy died as a result of something, not just from the beating but some kind of underlying issue. Under the influence of something possibly I don't know. Not many people have the sheer ability to beat a person to death from just a few blows.


I absolutely would have reacted the same way, if the piece of shit died then oh well so be it.

youre adding a further action that was not present. I can assume if the door wasnt locked, that hed open it and realize his mistake and apologize. Why isnt that possible? because hes a man and shes a girl that shaking a stall door automatically becomes a malevolent act?

Remove mentally ill, that doesnt really matter, even if it is supported by his family. The door was locked and when he realized it, he walked away. Youre assuming his intentions, when no further evidence suggests that was the intent. In other words youre jumping to conclusions. Which is why i think he was justified to confront the kid.

he did not die from something else, as if this guy not beating him, he would have just died all the same right then and there. You put your hands on somebody, youre taking liability for it.

[JAB1985]

JAB, if you had a child and someone followed them into a bathroom and tried to get into the stall your child was using...IMO, you would feel a lot differently.

Then again...maybe you wouldn’t. I have no clue what kind of parent you’d be. Maybe you wouldn’t beat someone’s ass if they attempted to assault your kids because it wouldn’t be best way to legally proceed. I personally don’t know anyone like that...but...maybe that is how you’d react.

To each their own.

there you go assuming attempted assault again.

im with you with the first part. if im that worried about my child, im probably outside the door waiting for them. If somebody went in and tried to open the stall, id probably ask "wtf are you doing?" or "what are you doing here? if i didnt like the answer its possible id punch them.

So its also possible they were just trying to go to the bathroom and didnt realize somebody was in the stall. so my first thought would not be to assume theyre going to rape and murder my daughter in this bathroom while theres security, a cashier or two, and 2 of her friends inside this same gas station.

Thats not remotely what happened here. painting a completely different scenario doesnt justify this one. He wasnt there when the guy tried, and it was already handled by the time he acted, with his daughter safely inside his own car. you cannot claim defense when there was no threat present.

[ravenmaniac4life]

there you go assuming attempted assault again.

im with you with the first part. if im that worried about my child, im probably outside the door waiting for them. If somebody went in and tried to open the stall, id probably ask "wtf are you doing?" or "what are you doing here? if i didnt like the answer its possible id punch them.

So its also possible they were just trying to go to the bathroom and didnt realize somebody was in the stall. so my first thought would not be to assume theyre going to rape and murder my daughter in this bathroom while theres security, a cashier or two, and 2 of her friends inside this same gas station.

Thats not remotely what happened here. painting a completely different scenario doesnt justify this one. He wasnt there when the guy tried, and it was already handled by the time he acted.

If a MALE crackhead follows my daughter into the LADIES restroom and then tries to get into her stall...I’m confronting him and punching his lights out.

We disagree on this. That’s ok. Again, if you had a child...we would probably align.

[JAB1985]

If a MALE crackhead follows my daughter into the LADIES restroom and then tries to get into her stall...I’m confronting him and punching his lights out.

We disagree on this. That’s ok. Again, if you had a child...we would probably align.

If your son is in a stall and its a women that tried to get in? Shes in the wrong bathroom. you hitting her? Youre saying this is about defending your child, right? So that wouldnt change anything?

[JAB1985]

Here you go again deflecting actual reality and what happens in the real world.

Re read the article. The father states (He didn't throw 1st punch) that should absolutely back him up from a self defense standpoint.

The perpetrator according to the article ( was leaving the store) that clearly shows you the security guard wasn't doing his job to apprehend him. Nothing precluded this guy from getting away and going and finishing the job somewhere else to another little girl.


The girl stated the guy (Violently) tried getting into the stall. That isn't some accident, that isn't some mistakenly being in the wrong room. You continue to ignore the malicous intent of the actions by the dead criminal who had a history of (trespassing, shoplifting and obstructing). Those charges tell you he has the mentaility to take and do what he wants with no fear of obeying the law.



You seem to be one painting the wrong picture of the incident. Maybe its because you aren't a father I don't know.

dude... read the entire article. Theyve said there are witnesses and video evidence that state he drove up, got out of the car and punched him, repeatedly when he was on the ground.

HE said the guy punched him and he only punched him once. that is not supported.

The security escorted him/asked him to leave the store. He did so.

She said he shook the door. in what context, youre adding.

a homeless person, trespassing and shoplifting? means clearly hes a rapist and murderer...

youre going pretty far off the reservation to try and justify this. Because of past non-violent crimes hes now committing a violent crime, that he didnt really commit, but he could have, which somehow means the father was justified in killing him defending his daughter, who was sitting in the back seat of his car as he drove it toward the guy.

[JAB1985]

I will give you a (real life example of my own)

5 years ago coming back form Disney world. I stopped off around 2am in a shithole area Petersberg VA to put gas in my RV. My family was inside it. I was pumping gas and behind my back I felt someone right behind me, this crackhead looking guy tried opening the door and walking into my RV. I grabbed him by his neck and his ass went flying across the parking lot. He was all messed up either high or drunk and came at me a 2nd time to try and get in and I again snatched his ass up and threw him to the ground.

What should I have done? let the guy inside my vehicle where my family was sleeping on an 16 hour drive home? Lets say had the guy died as a result of my actions, he smacked his head and died I should be charged now with MURDER? LOL

I will take my chances.

well, he was trying to get into your private property, not a public restroom. He also repeatedly attempted to come at you, not walk away. you also seemed to stop at ending the threat, not continuing to beat him on the ground. So no youd probably not get charged with anything, had he died from that.

why dont you go by SAW anymore?