First Ballot Hall of Famer.

**ClericBlackDave** · 07-16-2018, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Dade

Agreed. It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Very Good. IMO, T.O. was very good. Yes, his numbers were top 5, but I never considered him legendary.

No, its the Hall of Fame.

noun: fame
the condition of being known or talked about by many people, especially on account of notable achievements.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Dictionary#dobs=Fame

I love that people want to redefine things and language to serve their purposes, but lets be clear. its not the hall of greats. Or the hall of legends. its the hall of fame. If you want to start your own hall of legends, I guess holla at the NFLPA and the NFL and see if you can get some traction.

One of the reasons Kickers and Punters are hardly in the Hall of fame is that they weren't . . . Famous. . . in the game of football. They weren't notable. There were certainly some more top legendary calliber kickers who might have belonged in by that criteria, but the fact is most kickers are never Famous in the game. I could eventually see Pats/Colts kicker Adam Vinateri make it - he is a legit famous kicker. I could see Justin Tucker make it if he has 7-10 more years at this level, he could be famous. he's also had bigger time commercial exposure as compared to most kickers.

My point of this is - T.O. is no doubt a HOF'er. He has tops all time stats, and was famous and well known to everyone playing or watching the game. He's an all time great at WR, even if he isn't the GOAT. No-one who pays attention to football doesn't know who Owens was. That he only made it 3rd ballot is ridiculous. Marvin Harrison in over T.O. in 2016 is a travesty. Care to talk character issues? Come on. 2017 Terrell Davis is in? Morten Anderson? Jerry Jones?

The Hall of fame has a problem, and its that its guarded by Sportswriters with axes to grind and a lot of politics to play.

**Dade** · 07-16-2018, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by ClericBlackDave

No, its the Hall of Fame.

noun: fame
the condition of being known or talked about by many people, especially on account of notable achievements.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Dictionary#dobs=Fame

I love that people want to redefine things and language to serve their purposes, but lets be clear. its not the hall of fame. Or the hall of legends. its the hall of fame. If you want to start your own hall of legends, I guess holla at the NFLPA and the NFL and see if you can get some traction.

One of the reasons Kickers and Punters are hardly in the Hall of fame is that they weren't . . . Famous. . . in the game of football. They weren't notable. There were certainly some more top legendary calliber kickers who might have belonged in by that criteria, but the fact is most kickers are never Famous in the game. I could eventually see Pats/Colts kicker Adam Vinateri make it - he is a legit famous kicker. I could see Justin Tucker make it if he has 7-10 more years at this level, he could be famous. he's also had bigger time commercial exposure as compared to most kickers.

My point of this is - T.O. is no doubt a HOF'er. He has tops all time stats, and was famous and well known to everyone playing or watching the game. He's an all time great at WR, even if he isn't the GOAT. No-one who pays attention to football doesn't know who Owens was. That he only made it 3rd ballot is ridiculous. Marvin Harrison in over T.O. in 2016 is a travesty. Care to talk character issues? Come on. 2017 Terrell Davis is in? Morten Anderson? Jerry Jones?

The Hall of fame has a problem, and its that its guarded by Sportswriters with axes to grind and a lot of politics to play.

Fair enough, but that's what the HOF has meant to me. IMO, Marvin Harrison shouldn't be in either.

By the logic of being famous or well known in the sports world...well...Aaron Hernandez could be in the Hall.

**saintmatthew** · 07-16-2018, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Dade

Fair enough, but that's what the HOF has meant to me. IMO, Marvin Harrison shouldn't be in either.

By the logic of being famous or well known in the sports world...well...Aaron Hernandez could be in the Hall.

No, that would be the Hall of Infamy. Which we should totally have.

**Dade** · 07-16-2018, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by saintmatthew

No, that would be the Hall of Infamy. Which we should totally have.

Who else would be in the Hall of Infamy? Ray Rice?

**WrongBaldy** · 07-16-2018, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Dade

Who else would be in the Hall of Infamy? Ray Rice?

josh gordon
jamal lewis

**ClericBlackDave** · 07-16-2018, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Dade

Fair enough, but that's what the HOF has meant to me. IMO, Marvin Harrison shouldn't be in either.

By the logic of being famous or well known in the sports world...well...Aaron Hernandez could be in the Hall.

IMO, Marvin Harrison shouldn't be in there, at least not 1st ballot. how famous was he really, IMO? Particularly given the QB play he was given? Then you add in his actual character concerns (he's a legit known dirtbag), and I dont' see how that happened.

The HOF voters are incredibly inconsistent. Saying Owens' character kept him out is laughable when they did Harrison 1st ballot. An absolute joke.

If I were owens, I'd be pissed too, and I'd consider skipping. I'm sorry for him though that this is going to hurt him more than anything. But I get his sentiment.

**Ravens44** · 07-16-2018, 01:23 PM

From the NFL Hall of Fame's Mission Statement;

Mission:
•Honor the Heroes of the Game

•Preserve its History

•Promote its Values

•Celebrate Excellence EVERYWHERE

Values:
•Commitment

•Integrity

•Courage

•Respect

•Excellence

Vision:
It's not just the past, it's the future; It's not just about Canton, it's the world;
It's not just a great museum for football, it's a message of excellence EVERYWHERE.

**Dade** · 07-16-2018, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by ClericBlackDave

IMO, Marvin Harrison shouldn't be in there, at least not 1st ballot. how famous was he really, IMO? Particularly given the QB play he was given? Then you add in his actual character concerns (he's a legit known dirtbag), and I dont' see how that happened.

The HOF voters are incredibly inconsistent. Saying Owens' character kept him out is laughable when they did Harrison 1st ballot. An absolute joke.

If I were owens, I'd be pissed too, and I'd consider skipping. I'm sorry for him though that this is going to hurt him more than anything. But I get his sentiment.

Agreed. But I've never understand the huge importance on being a 1st ballot HOFer. I get it sucks to wait, thinking of Cris Carter. But once you're in, you're in. T.O. will forever be introduced as HOFer Terrell Owens, not 3rd Ballot HOFer Terrell Owens.

I get his pissed at having to had wait and that's why he's skipping it. But my favorite HOF speeches has been the ones that take the time to shine that national spotlight on your friends and family, thinking of Bill Parcells and Shannon Sharpes speeches. T.O. could've done that. But to each his own I guess.

**BcRaven** · 07-16-2018, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by ClericBlackDave

The Hall of fame has a problem, and its that its guarded by Sportswriters with axes to grind and a lot of politics to play.

OK CBD, let's say you're right regarding sportswriters. Then tell us who you'd have voting for HOF players? Perhaps the fans? Of course fans don't have axes to grind or allow politics or behavior to cloud their judgement (LOL!) ... Bc

**Flacco's_Haircut** · 07-16-2018, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Culex

How are you not high on Tomlinson?

His 2006 season was arguably the best season by a running back of all time

Change that to his 2003 season and I will agree. Other than Peterson he's the best running back I've seen since I started watching football.

**ClericBlackDave** · 07-16-2018, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Dade

Agreed. But I've never understand the huge importance on being a 1st ballot HOFer. I get it sucks to wait, thinking of Cris Carter. But once you're in, you're in. T.O. will forever be introduced as HOFer Terrell Owens, not 3rd Ballot HOFer Terrell Owens.

I get his pissed at having to had wait and that's why he's skipping it. But my favorite HOF speeches has been the ones that take the time to shine that national spotlight on your friends and family, thinking of Bill Parcells and Shannon Sharpes speeches. T.O. could've done that. But to each his own I guess.

Its not that Owens wasn't 1st ballot; its that he was 3rd ballot. That's absurd. Its a farce. Love him or hate him, he belongs in the hall. That he was passed over twice, it was an effort by the hall of fame voters to "humble" him, or something. Even now, they are stooping "to his level", whatever that means.

Again, Jerry Jones is in there, and Art Modell isn't? Crazy sh*t.

Who would I have vote on it? Right now, I'd have living HOF'ers vote, as well as the media. And give the media tougher guidelines and accoutability in terms of their votes.