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  1. #37

    Re: Five things that need to go right this season

    Quote Originally Posted by Rygar64 View Post
    ...the thing about Pees that irked me while at the same time actually making sense. ...if impact starters went down, then Pees would sometimes drastically change the defensive schemes and calls to account for the reserve players. And that would ultimately lead to 4th quarter collapses ... there were probably a few times where he went with trying to play the same defense with those reserve players, but the difference in skill level was so great that the player was simply overmatched.
    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post
    Ozzie/the Ravens poured so many assets, both in draft choices and FA $ into the defense, that I tend to believe Pees just didn't use all those defenders properly. Aside from Judon, I saw high (2nd and 3rd round draft choices) picking up splinters on the bench and not developing.
    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    If we're better right away, before depth even comes into play, then we'll know that Pees was coaching the instincts right out of his players. I think we'll be able to tell in the first game or two.
    I'm not sure we can draw immediate conclusions about this defense after the first couple games. Last season the Ravens had wins over conference opponents by a combined score of 44-10. Pees' defense looked pretty okay to me at that point.

    When everyone was healthy Pees looked pretty good. And they led the NFL in takeaways, with over 33% more then the next best defense (KC).

    I think the questions here relate to what happens when they turn to reserves and whether Wink will help develop players.

    BC, you point out that the team invested a lot in defensive selections. True. But their lack of playing time or failure to make an impact may or may not reflect on Pees. It's not that cut and dry, for me.

    Sometimes the player just doesn't ever pan out, regardless of his coordinator.

    And oftentimes it simply takes time for a player to contribute, particularly on defense, regardless of how aggressive or clever the coordinator is.

    Look at some of the defenses under Rex Ryan, who was extremely aggressive and certainly let guys go after it.

    Jarrett Johnson, a fourth rounder, wasn't a major contributor until his fifth season with the Ravens. A.D., a sixth rounder likewise took that long. Dwan Edwards, picked at the top of the second round, took four seasons. Another second rounder, Paul Kruger was drafted after Rex left, but he too took four years to develop. Dan Cody and David Pittman were second and third rounders who never developed under Rex.

    My point is that I don't think we're as patient as we need to be when it comes to the development of players like Wormley, Bowser, Kafusi, and Correa. Some may indeed bust. Some may contribute. I don't think you can necessarily attribute either result to the fact that their DC was Pees versus Martindale. I believe it's more a reflection on Ozzie and the scouts--or simply the player himself. And I think we worry too much about, "oh, he's a second rounder, so I expect more, and I expect it right away."

    That said, I hear and understand the argument that Correa, for instance, was not properly utilized under Pees. I'm willing to accept the possibility. But I'm more willing to point to the player and ask if he was up to the task. A coach can help put players in a position to succeed. But it's really up to the player to perform. Some don't. Some turn out to be Arthur Brown or Matt Elam regardless of who is coaching them.





  2. #38
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    Re: Five things that need to go right this season

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    My point is that I don't think we're as patient as we need to be when it comes to the development of players like Wormley, Bowser, Kafusi, and Correa. Some may indeed bust. Some may contribute. I don't think you can necessarily attribute either result to the fact that their DC was Pees versus Martindale. I believe it's more a reflection on Ozzie and the scouts--or simply the player himself. And I think we worry too much about, "oh, he's a second rounder, so I expect more, and I expect it right away."
    I do not agree. Several of those draft choices were selected over offensive players. So if you're going to set aside offense then you'd better have players on "D" who can contribute sooner rather than later. Shall I even mention Matt Elam, Arthur Brown, Terrance Brooks, or Carl Davis? By now the Ravens should have had a strong/solid defense. IMO it's the fault of the scouts/Ozzie/and Pees. Wasting draft capital doesn't get you to the playoffs... Bc





  3. #39

    Re: Five things that need to go right this season

    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post
    MO it's the fault of the scouts/Ozzie/and Pees. Wasting draft capital doesn't get you to the playoffs... Bc
    That's my point. It's more on Ozzie than it is on Pees for letting guys waste away on the bench or use them properly. Pees gets all the blame, but somewhat undeservedly.

    Happens on offense too. Perriman and Williams to name a couple recent examples of high picks who have yet to contribute.

    We have the right to be upset, but be upset at the right culprit.

    But also understand that not every pick goes well. They've busted on second rounders for years and years. Don't worry too much about which round.

    Also, be patient enough to give some of these guys 2-3 years before making a final judgement. History shows us that particularly on defense it takes that long to develop.





  4. #40

    Re: Five things that need to go right this season

    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post
    mmx, I think you've made :



    great points! ... Bc
    Thanks Bc!
    "Put your goggles on, 'cause there's gonna be blood and guts everywhere!" - SSSr





  5. #41

    Re: Five things that need to go right this season

    Quote Originally Posted by ERey View Post
    There's only one thing for me... Somewhere around game 15 or 16 when the Ravens are in the playoff hunt, the Defense under Don Martindale needs to finally hold the lead and secure a playoff spot.
    I'd rather see them crush their enemies, have them driven before the end of the 3rd quarter, and spend the 4th listening to the lamentations of their women.





  6. #42
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    Re: Five things that need to go right this season

    Quote Originally Posted by OhThePossibilities View Post
    I'd rather see them crush their enemies, have them driven before the end of the 3rd quarter, and spend the 4th listening to the lamentations of their women.


    THAT's what is best in life.





  7. #43
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    Re: Five things that need to go right this season

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post


    THAT's what is best in life.
    I approve this message. Maybe Harbs should have Ahhhnold address the team. Half those guys won't know who he is, lol.





  8. #44

    Re: Five things that need to go right this season

    1. Defensive coordinator needs to to install an aggressive scheme / pass rush needs to improve
    2. Barbs needs to change. He needs to stop putting players in doghouses and needs to embrace the modern NFL
    3. Flacco needs to throw the ball deep
    4. Offensive line needs to fill holes
    5. Someone has to show they are a legitimate NFL caliber WR on the ravens
    Burn it down





  9. #45

    Re: Five things that need to go right this season

    You guys think your Defense is set for this year? As a Pack fan ever since 2000 I love watching that defense.





  10. #46
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    Re: Five things that need to go right this season

    Quote Originally Posted by Gjennings85 View Post
    You guys think your Defense is set for this year? As a Pack fan ever since 2000 I love watching that defense.
    The starting talent is definitely there. The depth is questionable. We have so many high draft picks that don't seem to do much when they get a chance. With a new DC with just 1 previous season in that position it's impossible to know how he'll do. The players sure seem to love him. Years ago the Ravens had a similar situation with Chuck Pagano and it worked out great. This should be a top 10 defense.





  11. #47

    Re: Five things that need to go right this season

    I was just listening to an interview with Albert Breer, SI's NFL writer, and he made a statement that there are two teams in the NFL who offensive coordinators hated preparing for last year: the Bears and the Ravens. For the Ravens he attributed it to their complex blitz packages from anywhere in the field.

    If I combine that thought with what I read here about Pees, sounds to me like he had the right tools, but too often put the tools back in the shed in the fourth quarter and played too conservatively--backing off what they do well.





  12. #48
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    Re: Five things that need to go right this season

    I may turn this into an article and quote you, if you're cool with that Shas?
    "Cause if you ain’t pissed off for greatness, that just means you’re okay with being mediocre, and ain’t no man in here okay with just basic.”
    - Ray Lewis

    https://www.baltimoreravens.com/author/cole-jackson

    Twitter: @ColeJacksonFB





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