Honest Thoughts about Flacco's Contract in 2013?

[Trackmaster]

[QUOTE=cjandrze;1474108]

I find it very odd that we gave a largely unproven QB even more than the franchise tag per year.
QUOTE]

5 years in the league
5 playoff appearances
2 AFCCG appearances
1 SB win, SB MVP, top 3 playoff performance ever.

I don't understand the unproven aspect of your argument.

Also, everything else in your post is about how he performed after 2013. Hindsight is 20/20.

I do think the extension in 2015 was a poor choice though, due to the post 2013 performances.

I did mention the philosophic a priori vs. a posteriori issues with the argument.

It seems like from an a posteriori, people are simply refusing to answer the question. Or they're doubling down on the nonsense that he didn't have help enough around him. I think that if you gave Ozzie a crystal ball in 2013, it was pretty open and shut that you should have either let him walk or slapped the franchise tag on him.

From a priori standpoint, everybody I guess swears that it was a contract of brilliance, and they never second guessed it. I'll go on record saying that I was on the fence, and thought that it could have been a good or bad deal. I also have always said that there's NEVER a situation where you HAVE to sign a player. Might as well ask for a $50M a year deal then if the GM ever says that.



And yes, I can forgive the Ravens for the 2013 deal, it would have taken a lot of balls to have let him go. The unforgivable mistake was 2016. That was out of control absurd. I think that what gave me the uneasy feeling in my stomach about the 2013 contract was how casually people were talking about the contract was a "placeholder" and "everyone knew" it was have to be structured. Again, never words or phrases you should be throwing around in negotiations or roster construction. We should have let him play out the deal, or cut him when the $20M a year in salary was not worth it anymore. Year 4-6 were pretty much option years from a decision making standpoint perspective. The dead money was irrelevant to decision making.

[Rygar64]

[QUOTE=Trackmaster;1474148]

I did mention the philosophic a priori vs. a posteriori issues with the argument.

It seems like from an a posteriori, people are simply refusing to answer the question. Or they're doubling down on the nonsense that he didn't have help enough around him. I think that if you gave Ozzie a crystal ball in 2013, it was pretty open and shut that you should have either let him walk or slapped the franchise tag on him.

From a priori standpoint, everybody I guess swears that it was a contract of brilliance, and they never second guessed it. I'll go on record saying that I was on the fence, and thought that it could have been a good or bad deal. I also have always said that there's NEVER a situation where you HAVE to sign a player. Might as well ask for a $50M a year deal then if the GM ever says that.



And yes, I can forgive the Ravens for the 2013 deal, it would have taken a lot of balls to have let him go. The unforgivable mistake was 2016. That was out of control absurd. I think that what gave me the uneasy feeling in my stomach about the 2013 contract was how casually people were talking about the contract was a "placeholder" and "everyone knew" it was have to be structured. Again, never words or phrases you should be throwing around in negotiations or roster construction. We should have let him play out the deal, or cut him when the $20M a year in salary was not worth it anymore. Year 4-6 were pretty much option years from a decision making standpoint perspective. The dead money was irrelevant to decision making.

If Ozzie had that crystal ball, I'm betting he keeps the contract and changes some of the other decisions he made both in FA and the draft. Don't trade Boldin...address LT in the draft or FA that offseason...don't draft Elam or Aurthur Brown...don't cut Ray Rice...don't sign Pitta...or Huff or Spears...keep "Dig"...etc etc

An immediate return to the playoffs post SB season and/or finishing off the Pats in 2014 paints this discussion a whole different light if we are all going to wear our 20/20 HSGs.

[Smackums]

My initial thought was that the Ravens played the situation as poorly as they could have. If they signed Flacco early then they avoid the market setting deal and have the ability to field a better team without all of the cap constraints. If they pull the offer from the table then they should have held off and given him the franchise tag. It may not have given them the best press, but there was no history that proved that Flacco could consistently be what he was during that 2012 epic playoff run.

I think that Steve Biscotti pushed for that contract to get done as a fan and not as an owner. It wouldn't have been the best press, but the Ravens would not have been crazy to make Flacco play a year under the Franchise tag. When a QB takes up that much of your cap there are only 2 ways you can build your team. You can build an offensive team and plan to win shootouts (ala the Colts) or invest in your QB and defense and plan to win close games (ala the Seahawks). A year under the franchise tag had no downside. If the Ravens won a second title then they would have happily set the market. If not then they would've regained some of their leverage.

[Jfoh]

There was absolutely no way they could have let Joe walk away as a free agent in 2013. The same fans now using hindsight would have gone nuclear. OMG they would scream we waited a decade for a franchise qb only to let him go over a few million bucks. The Ravens are poor at managing their cap. They wait until the walk year because they don’t have cap space every year. You wait and you have to match another team willing to overpay. Manage your cap better and sign these players two years before their walk year. Better terms and you are not being forced to pay free agent money to keep your own players.

The real problem is they let the offensive talent level drop after 2012. Building traded over 2 million. Ray Rice gone. Pita becomes a walking wounded warrior. O line becomes a joke by 2015. 82 goes to the 49’s and plays with Boldin again. The talent level dropped off a lot. And they still used pick after pick on defensive players. The o gets weaker and they keep drafting D players in the first and second rounds who are not even active on game days.

This entire drop off in offense production is on the front office. They blamed the o coordinator for not getting more production out of this team but you can not coach up chicken manure into chicken salad. I’ve watched countless drafts where they waited until the bottom of the fourth round to use a comp pick to start drafting a offensive player. That company pick is really a fifth round pick. News flash, the best players are long gone. You might find a serviceable player in the fifth round, if you can wait three years to develop him.

[BcRaven]

My initial thought was that the Ravens played the situation as poorly as they could have. If they signed Flacco early then they avoid the market setting deal and have the ability to field a better team without all of the cap constraints. If they pull the offer from the table then they should have held off and given him the franchise tag. It may not have given them the best press, but there was no history that proved that Flacco could consistently be what he was during that 2012 epic playoff run.

I think that Steve Biscotti pushed for that contract to get done as a fan and not as an owner. It wouldn't have been the best press, but the Ravens would not have been crazy to make Flacco play a year under the Franchise tag. When a QB takes up that much of your cap there are only 2 ways you can build your team. You can build an offensive team and plan to win shootouts (ala the Colts) or invest in your QB and defense and plan to win close games (ala the Seahawks). A year under the franchise tag had no downside. If the Ravens won a second title then they would have happily set the market. If not then they would've regained some of their leverage.

IIRC, we did try to sign Flacco a year earlier, but he turned down the offer and "bet" on himself. That took guts, but he turned out to be right as the Ravens won the Super Bowl, and he was named MVP. I believe every Ravens fan would have hit the roof if we didn't resign Flacco in 2013... Bc