It's late, but my draft review. Take it FWIW

**usmccharles** · 05-08-2018, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorthRaven

They were high on Hurst and didn't think he'd last till the second round pick. Like any time you draft a player the proof will be in the results.

I mostly agree and TBH I would have taken Moore with the first trade back, but I do like Hurst. If he is a bust though it's going to be really annoying.

I get they were high on him, but a TE doesn't change your franchise like a QB does, obviously. Just seems extremely risky to me especially considering the value of said position, even if Hurst is the next Gronk, he isn't more important than a franchise QB.

Yea I think most of us are pretty disappointed about getting Hurst over Moore. I am pretty disappointed that we didn't come away with any of Moore-Hamiliton-Washington-Sutton-Miller. Having Moore and LJ together for the foreseeable future would have been a great foundation for the new philosophy

**WNCRavensFan** · 05-08-2018, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorthRaven

I think the purpose was the 5th year option. Most pundits are calling it a masterful call by Oz. It's going to completely depend on whether he pans out, but if he does it was quite genius to get a 5th year at a discount.

Yessir - like I said, pick 32 was the perfect spot to take Lamar Jackson. If you take him in Rd 2 and he busts out there's really not much difference. If he pans out, you've just saved $20+ million.

**JimZipCode** · 05-08-2018, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by fadetoj

False. I suggest you take a look at Contextualized Quarterbacking: https://www.ndtscouting.com/wp-conte...terbacking.pdf

Lamar Jackson starts on page 26.

That was an AMAZING read. Thanks for linking.

**JimZipCode** · 05-08-2018, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by HbgPARavenfan

If Hurst isnt a legit All pro by the end of his rookie deal he will be a disappointment.

I can't possibly agree with that.

Maybe if you said, if he hasn't made a Pro Bowl by the end of his rookie deal. But you said Hurst has to basically be the consensus best TE in the league, or else it's a disappointment. That's bullshit.

I'd say, Hurst needs to turn into a fairly reliable top-5 or -6 fantasy TE. But he doesn't have to be better than Gronk, Kelce et al to be a decent 1st-rd pick.

**QuothDaRaven** · 05-08-2018, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by JimZipCode

That was an AMAZING read. Thanks for linking.

“Jackson is pure lightning in a QB bottle. Lamar, like many naturally gifted passers before him, tends to stray too far away from his mechanics, which leads to some ugly misses. But when categorizing a huge miss and a regular miss the same (uncatchable; poorly placed), we discover a key truth underneath our subconscious corrections and biases: Lamar is an accurate quarterback. His catchable numbers aren’t amazing, no—but his placement numbers are. When he throws, he is acutely aware of where the ball belongs relative to coverage. A sub-4% INTable number speaks to this, as does the data into tight windows and beyond his first read. Lamar has more playmaking ability than any quarterback in this class by leaps and bounds, due in large part to his legs—but don’t miss it: this is an adept college thrower who can run multiple styles of offense, hit every throw, and is worthy of the #1 overall selection in any class.”

Holy shit.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**JimZipCode** · 05-09-2018, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by QuothDaRaven

Holy shit.

Right?!?

**JimZipCode** · 05-09-2018, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by QuothDaRaven

“Lamar, like many naturally gifted passers before him, tends to stray too far away from his mechanics, which leads to some ugly misses. But ... Lamar is an accurate quarterback. His catchable numbers aren’t amazing, no—but his placement numbers are. When he throws, he is acutely aware of where the ball belongs relative to coverage.”

Matches what I see on some of his tape. He flashes superb ball placement. Really superb.

Sometimes he looks like a point guard dropping it into the pocket of a big man for the dunk. Not because he's black and slight: no, I mean the way he moves to change the throwing lane, and then flicks the ball deftly to his teammate. It's like he draws the defense and then dishes. Jackson flashes a tremendous feel for EXACTLY where his receiver needs it. And how hot. It's almost like he hands the ball to his receiver, across distance.

(I love when I see basketball parallels for QBs. To me it speaks to a feel for the way players move and how to get the ball to a teammate in space. I first relaxed about Flacco in a play from his first game, against Cincy, when under pressure he rolled away from Todd Heap to draw the defender and create space, then threw it back to him. I thought, "That was a basketball play!" And felt comfortable about him as a passer from then on.)

But Jackson is inconsistent. "Flashes" is the word. His passing footwork isn't great; the "narrow base" that some of the scouts talk about keeps him from consistently getting his lower body into his throws, which messes with his mechanics. There's no "hallway". He has real work to do.

But the upside is ridiculous. It's not like our coaches have to "make him accurate" — which, after years of watching Kyle Boller, I don't believe can be done. They just have to help Jackson be able to consistently do what he can ALREADY do. The accuracy and touch are already in there. It's refinement and technique and consistency that need to be added: not placement & feel. The WCO is perfect for him.

It's almost like Jackson's floor is Michael Vick. His ceiling is — well, it's too ridiculous to say.

I have to watch that Clemson game that Mizerooskie talked about, to get a view of Jackson gagging all over the field. I need to get some counter-perspective, quick; because I have gotten REALLY high on this prospect.

**arnie_uk** · 05-09-2018, 03:21 AM

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorthRaven

They were high on Hurst and didn't think he'd last till the second round pick. Like any time you draft a player the proof will be in the results.

I mostly agree and TBH I would have taken Moore with the first trade back, but I do like Hurst. If he is a bust though it's going to be really annoying.

His point is more... if you really liked jackson why risk losing him and not picking him at 25 or 16 or 22?

Does it show maybe they weren't to bothered if someone else took him?

**edromeo** · 05-09-2018, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by usmccharles

This. I Think this is the biggest miss-conception about LJ. When I watched his highlights I thought the same thing, but I was still excited to have him. Obviously with us selecting him we all have done a lot more reading and the data just doesn't support that he is a run first QB, with 73% being designed runs he is just doing what he is asked to do. The accuracy issues are still a concern but I'm much more excited (still skeptical) than I previously was after reading a lot more info thanks to the posters here.

From Ben Soldak link already posted:

https://www.ndtscouting.com/solak-no...uarterbacking/

**bmorecareful** · 05-09-2018, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by arnie_uk

His point is more... if you really liked jackson why risk losing him and not picking him at 25 or 16 or 22?

Does it show maybe they weren't to bothered if someone else took him?

Yes, this. I think they liked LJ but didn't REALLY want him. They wanted Kolton Miller, when he got taken at #15 they just took the best trade offer available. At 25 DJ Moore, Isaiah Wynn, and both of the top Cs were all off the board, so they took Hurst. I think they believed LJ would go to PIT, JAX, or NWE late in the 1st, when he was still there at #32 overall they realized they only needed to pay basically next year's 2nd to get an extra option year for him, so they scrambled to get it done.

Either the way the draft shook out in the 1st really surprised them somehow or they panicked, those are the only explanations I see.

**usmccharles** · 05-09-2018, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

Either the way the draft shook out in the 1st really surprised them somehow or they panicked, those are the only explanations I see.

Maybe both? It just doesn't make sense to me to give up the capital and take a QB in the first unless you love the kid

**alien bird** · 05-09-2018, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

Yes, this. I think they liked LJ but didn't REALLY want him. They wanted Kolton Miller, when he got taken at #15 they just took the best trade offer available. At 25 DJ Moore, Isaiah Wynn, and both of the top Cs were all off the board, so they took Hurst. I think they believed LJ would go to PIT, JAX, or NWE late in the 1st, when he was still there at #32 overall they realized they only needed to pay basically next year's 2nd to get an extra option year for him, so they scrambled to get it done.

Either the way the draft shook out in the 1st really surprised them somehow or they panicked, those are the only explanations I see.

I don't think it was panic at all. I think they had their board stacked a certain way, were content to trade back because they had several players rated similarly. I think they tried to trade back out of #25 but found no takers, so they took the top guy on their list. Then, when Jackson fell farther than the expected, they saw an opportunity and made a move they didn't think they would be able to make. I think they liked Jackson a lot but liked other guys better, and if Jackson was taken between 26-31 they would have been fine with keeping the picks they had. To me that's not a panic but rather shrewd action when an opportunity presented itself. I don't think they saw Jackson as a top 25 kind of guy. It's fair to say they might have been pleasantly surprised that he fell that way, but I don't think they were shocked into a panic with the way it played out (like they were with the 3 WR in the Top Ten last year).