Investment/Economy Thread

**WrongBaldy** · 01-31-2019, 12:30 PM

chicago PMI down to 56.7 from 63.8

Jobless claims up to 253k from 200k

**Ortizer** · 01-31-2019, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by blah3

No, just no. We don't need government as a place of employment opportunities. What happens when you pull 4 billion out of the govt work force???? It goes back into the pockets of tax payers and into the private sector economy. Which is a hell of a lot more efficient.

So you trigger a depression instead by pulling all those jobs and the spending those employees do out of the economy instead?

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

So, the government is a gluttonous spending pig and the answer is to give them more money to manage?

Their budgets are already ridiculous in comparison to the amount of taxes they bring in on an annual basis. Department heads that have surpluses towards the end of the year use every last damn cent on the dumbest things imaginable...new office chairs because the current chairs are 2 years old...

I say cut the whole thing back. Rip the bandaid off quickly. Maybe maybe you could convince some people to offer a safety net for people that would ultimately lose their jobs, but those safety nets wouldn't be salary forever...more like a good severance package with some training and education attached to it to make them more competitive on the open market.

I just don't see the economy being able to absorb all those jobs. I agree completely that the jobs shouldn't be there, I just fine feel like we have enough available jobs to absorb all those people.

Also, I believe I read you could scrap all the welfare programs and replace with a universal basic income for less money since it's so much more efficient to administer.

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**Ortizer** · 01-31-2019, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by BPF2

Yeah, this universal income concept is completely not the answer. It's like the push to move minimum wage to $15. All that will do is harm the middle class that the proponents claim to care so much about. There will be two outcomes - 1) inflation, 2) fewer jobs. Those middle class jobs are not going to see 10% raises, but they will see the price of everything increase.

As far as rip the bandaid off quickly, I kind of agree, but I really fear that it would be way too big a shock to the economic system and could really spiral things out of control. Most private sector employers if they do a RIF will provide severance and maybe some job training, depending on position. I feel like you kind of have to whittle away at it a bit at a time. I believe Trump has already done some of that - either cutting jobs and/or not filling vacancies.

I think if you take a slower steady approach from the employee side, but focus more on the wasted spending - especially the big ticket items like the F-35 project you mentioned, you would see a bigger reduction in the budget with less of a shockwave to the economy.

I just don't see how the economy is going to absorb the amount of job disruption that is going to come in the next couple decades. We are going to have to reevaluate how we look at work as a society, because AI can disrupt a lot of fields.

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**blah3** · 02-01-2019, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by Ortizer

So you trigger a depression instead by pulling all those jobs and the spending those employees do out of the economy instead? I just don't see the economy being able to absorb all those jobs. I agree completely that the jobs shouldn't be there, I just fine feel like we have enough available jobs to absorb all those people.

Also, I believe I read you could scrap all the welfare programs and replace with a universal basic income for less money since it's so much more efficient to administer.

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Ahh the siren call of free money. Socialist utopia. Except, somebody somewhere has to earn it in order for the govt to confiscate it and give it away.

**NCRAVEN** · 02-01-2019, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Ortizer

So you trigger a depression instead by pulling all those jobs and the spending those employees do out of the economy instead? I just don't see the economy being able to absorb all those jobs. I agree completely that the jobs shouldn't be there, I just fine feel like we have enough available jobs to absorb all those people.

Also, I believe I read you could scrap all the welfare programs and replace with a universal basic income for less money since it's so much more efficient to administer.

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Where is the incentive to work hard if it's only going to get you the same as everyone else?

**Ortizer** · 02-01-2019, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by blah3

Ahh the siren call of free money. Socialist utopia. Except, somebody somewhere has to earn it in order for the govt to confiscate it and give it away.

The government taxes economic activity. They could work it out, plus you have more potential to create jobs from people that can go start a business since the cost of failure isn't their family on the street.

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Where is the incentive to work hard if it's only going to get you the same as everyone else?

There's more to life than food and shelter. Most of the proposals I've seen would barely provide that, so if you want more you'd still have to work.

We're not talking something like socialism everyone shares everything and sums cumbaya. It is a replacement for the safety net (read welfare, snap, the one for pregnant women, unemployment) that is more efficient to administer (less government overhead) and provides some buffer against industries going out of business and people taking risk such as starting new industries. When I'm not at work I can dig up more information. It's interesting to read about.

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**ravenmaniac4life** · 02-01-2019, 01:21 PM

Anyone see the jobs report?

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/01/nonf...uary-2019.html

Is there any doubt that the US economy is the strongest in the world? Aren’t we leading the world in oil exporting as well? What an incredible time to live in America.

**BPF2** · 02-01-2019, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Ortizer

The government taxes economic activity. They could work it out, plus you have more potential to create jobs from people that can go start a business since the cost of failure isn't their family on the street. There's more to life than food and shelter. Most of the proposals I've seen would barely provide that, so if you want more you'd still have to work.

We're not talking something like socialism everyone shares everything and sums cumbaya. It is a replacement for the safety net (read welfare, snap, the one for pregnant women, unemployment) that is more efficient to administer (less government overhead) and provides some buffer against industries going out of business and people taking risk such as starting new industries. When I'm not at work I can dig up more information. It's interesting to read about.

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If a universal basic income were ever to pass, there's no way they'd get rid of the existing safety net programs. That's just not how government entitlement works. It can only be added to, not instead of. That's the problem. All these programs get sold as a "hand up" but they become a way of life for most.

And there is no way that the promise of UBI, which would be a minimal amount would be enough incentive for me to go out and take a risk starting a business. So if it fails, I shouldn't worry about the money I've sunk in and lost, nor the prospect of trying to get back into the job market and however long that may take because the gov't is going to give me a minimal payment? No chance.

I just don't trust government to adequately collect, protect, and return funds to the people properly. Social Security was founded in 1935. I'm only 46 and I don't have any expectation that I'll see my share. And I've been of that belief for most of my working years. So by the time I reach 65, I will have given hundreds of thousands of dollars to the government with years and years to accumulate and grow with interest, but it will all be gone used to pay those who retired before me and fund other programs. Other people have pulled that trick, most notably guys named Ponzi and Madoff.

**WrongBaldy** · 02-02-2019, 03:09 AM

Lolz

https://www.factcheck.org/2017/09/obamas-final-numbers/

#alternativefacts

lolz

wonder what coulter will tweet next

**ravenmaniac4life** · 02-05-2019, 05:40 PM

this is good news...

BREAKING: Big Trump Win: Tax Cuts Trigger Exxon Mobil To Invest Whopping $10 Billion In America's Infrastructure

https://www.dailywire.com/news/43088...n-hank-berrien

On Tuesday, ExxonMobil announced it would invest a whopping $10 billion in America’s infrastructure as it develops the Golden Pass liquefied natural gas (LNG) facility in Sabine Pass. According to Exxon Mobil, “Construction will begin in the first quarter of 2019 and the facility is expected to start up in 2024.”

and then...

Exxon Mobil plans to invest over $50 billion over the next five years on the Growing the Gulf initiative, which is expected to create roughly 45,000 jobs.