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  1. #73

    Re: Savage on scouting and drafting

    Quote Originally Posted by PalladinInNC View Post
    Me three Bc
    let's go for... four of a kind... plays well with the recent betting news too





  2. #74
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    Thumbs up Re: Savage on scouting and drafting

    Quote Originally Posted by horus13 View Post
    let's go for... four of a kind... plays well with the recent betting news too



    ... Bc





  3. #75

    Re: Savage on scouting and drafting

    Quote Originally Posted by calmerthanyouare View Post
    I'm perfectly calm, dude.
    calmer than you are!!





  4. #76
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    Re: Savage on scouting and drafting

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongBaldy View Post
    calmer than you are!!
    That’s not hard when compared to me! Lol.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





  5. #77
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    Re: Savage on scouting and drafting

    Quote Originally Posted by calmerthanyouare View Post
    New member here, first post!

    A few members have referred to 2013 as a bad class – is that just because of the top two picks (Elam and Brown)? Because the rest of that class (Brandon Williams, John Simon, Kyle Juszczyk, Rick Wagner and Ryan Jensen) may make it one of the deeper drafts in team history.

    We’re used to seeing a typical draft class yield 2-4 legitimate contributors, with many classes including at least one high impact player (Ray Lewis and JO, Boulware. McAlister, Jamal Lewis, Heap, Reed, Suggs, Ngata, Yanda, Flacco). The last nine years have continued to yield 2-4 legitimate contributors, but we haven’t seen the truly dominant players ascend. I hold little love for Harbaugh, but I’m not sure that this is as much a Harbaugh vs. Ozzie issue as it’s made out to be. Jimmy Smith has been impacted by injuries (as have Webb and Pitta; all three had higher ceilings than they reached). Osemele was blocked out of being resigned by Flacco’s high cap number. Brandon Williams, Mosley, Stanley and Humphrey could one day be regarded as high impact players depending on how the next 5-10 years go.

    My point is the jury is still out on how “bad” our recent draft classes have been compared to our history. Outside of Terrell Suggs, we drafted Kyle Boller, Dwan Edwards, Mark Clayton, Dan Cody and Adam Terry in the top two rounds between 2003-2005. Edwards was the only serviceable player to come out of the 2004 class; that may be the worst draft in franchise history. So as much as 2014 was disappointing from a depth perspective and 2015 was disappointing all around, they aren’t complete stand-alone failures. 2016 seems to be shaping up as an extremely deep class despite the slow (or no) development of Correa and Kaufusi, and 2017 has a good chance to be successful as well.
    Good first post

    Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk





  6. #78
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    Re: Savage on scouting and drafting

    Quote Originally Posted by Coram_Nobis View Post
    When Derwin James and Tremaine Edmunds are on the board (both acknowledged as top 12 non-QB talent) and the Ravens pass on both -- that tells us that this isn't the 2003 Ozzie/Phil war room.

    When the Ravens, Titans, and Steelers all need an ILB, and the Steelers and Titans were playoff teams, and the Ravens decide to trade with...the Titans and give them the chance to select the ILB -- that tells us that the "Defense Wins Championships" mindset may be under reevaluation.

    When, years ago, the owner chides DeCosta to not be a "pick whore" but this year the team trades down at least three times -- that tells us that maybe the red lantern was in the window.

    When the Ravens sign three veteran WRs and draft an older tight end in the first round, all in a win-now mode but then trade away a second round pick for a QB who can't help you win now -- that tells us there is some conflict, some hedging.

    When the Ravens have a head coach who is notorious for bleeding cloying coach speak, but the team selects a WR who was suspended and an OL who had a head-scratching, red-flag raising Combine performance -- that tells us a change in power or outlook may have happened.

    The Ravens did a lot in this draft.
    Did the new guy get to pull more strings?
    Are they competing, rebuilding, reloading?
    Will the focus change from being a defense-oriented team with a run/pass balance to a QB-centric team?

    I don't know much, but I know this: I don't recognize the 2018 Ravens War Room.
    These are very excellent points. There does seem to be conflict within the Ravens War Room. They drafted to compete now, they drafted for the future, and they skipped over some high profile defensive talent. It's worth noting that the previous draft the Ravens drafted towards the defense (Marlon Humphrey, Tyus Bowser, Chris Wormley, Tim Williams, Chuck Clark). The only offensive players drafted in 2017 were Nico Siragusa and Jermaine Eluemunor (both OL). This tells me there's more of a simplistic long-term plan in place as well (one-year offensive, the next year defense). The Ravens drafted 8 offensive players in 2018 to 4 defensive players in this same draft.





  7. #79
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    Re: Savage on scouting and drafting

    Quote Originally Posted by BMORERavens View Post
    These are very excellent points. There does seem to be conflict within the Ravens War Room. They drafted to compete now, they drafted for the future, and they skipped over some high profile defensive talent. It's worth noting that the previous draft the Ravens drafted towards the defense (Marlon Humphrey, Tyus Bowser, Chris Wormley, Tim Williams, Chuck Clark). The only offensive players drafted in 2017 were Nico Siragusa and Jermaine Eluemunor (both OL). This tells me there's more of a simplistic long-term plan in place as well (one-year offensive, the next year defense). The Ravens drafted 8 offensive players in 2018 to 4 defensive players in this same draft.
    It should also be noted that the first 4 draftees (1st through 3rd rounds) were on offense. 2 TEs, QB, and OT... Bc





  8. #80

    Re: Savage on scouting and drafting

    Quote Originally Posted by Coram_Nobis View Post
    When Derwin James and Tremaine Edmunds are on the board (both acknowledged as top 12 non-QB talent) and the Ravens pass on both -- that tells us that this isn't the 2003 Ozzie/Phil war room.... that tells us that the "Defense Wins Championships" mindset may be under reevaluation....sign three veteran WRs and draft an older tight end in the first round, all in a win-now mode but then trade away a second round pick for a QB who can't help you win now -- that tells us there is some conflict, some hedging.... selects a WR who was suspended and an OL who had a head-scratching, red-flag raising Combine performance -- that tells us a change in power .
    I don't see it as quite so complex and contradictory.

    I think you're correct that they've re-evaluated the relative value of offensive versus defensive players in favor of the former. In my original post in this thread Phil Savage's points underscore the increasingly clear reality that it is pretty hard to win with a dominent defense and ball control offense. At least win over a sustained period of time.

    The front office has always stacked their board with team needs in mind and they've always valued extra picks especially in drafts where there is a lot of mid-round value. The only thing I see in the 2018 draft that's different is a re-evaluation of the relative value of offensive players. A player like James who in the past may indeed have been rated in their top ten was rated as merely the 16th-best and relatively the same as a handful of offensive players still on the board at 16. They valued the close-behind-James offensive players plus extra picks more than the premium James represented.

    So there is your main shift in philosophy.

    If building a more modern offense can lead to more wins, it may also lead to a more exciting product on the field. I have little doubt this is in the forefront of Steve Bisciotti's mind--along with escalators, big video boards and lower concession prices--and that wish was communicated in their Jupiter meeting. That also leads to putting more value on offensive talent as they stack their board. It also explains the Lamar Jackson pick. I don't see it as a change in power, but a hedge against Flacco's trajectory and a collective recognition they need to focus on more offensive talent.

    Signing veteran receivers and passing highly drafted rookie receivers is a Ravens tradition, notwithstanding the few bad picks in Perriman, Taylor and Clayton. DeCosta recently referenced an admiration for how the Steelers do business, and the thing that stands out to me most about them, and New England for that matter (other than avoiding knee-jerk firings), is finding receivers that fit their system in rounds 3-6.

    You implied that Harbaugh's power has been usurped because they drafted question-mark players in Zeus Jr in the third and Lasley in the fifth--or those picks may have been made against his wishes, thus creating conflict. I don't really see it that way.

    Brown isn't Laremy Tunsil by a long shot, and was first round talent available in the third round. Smart pick. Lasley's issues are overblown. The issue with him is mostly a hot head who has trouble keeping his emotions in check. Sounds to me like Steve Smith, who Harbaugh heavily recruited to Baltimore. Harbs grew up with an immature hot-head brother...I don't see Lasley as a foriegn object in John's world, and you can't go wrong taking a flyer on him in the fifth.

    Hurst being older is a non issue for me. Don't know why anyone on the staff would oppose the pick based on him being the same age as Pitta when he was drafted.

    In short, I don't see where there is any conflict, only an evlolution of thinking over the relative value of offensive players, which was the point of the thread.

    Although I'll grant you the point of the thread was also that Bisciotti wanted fewer opinions in the mix when evaluating players in the first couple rounds.

    What I think I observed on draft day was Ozzie and Eric having more freedom to be nimble in how they manoevered around the board in the first two days of the draft, without being dragged down by coaches voices in their ears. I see it as a return to their old way of doing things when Billick was around, albeit with more value put on offensive players.

    I see the 2018 draft room has having less conflict than past drafts, not more.





  9. #81
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    Re: Savage on scouting and drafting

    Quote Originally Posted by BcRaven View Post
    It should also be noted that the first 4 draftees (1st through 3rd rounds) were on offense. 2 TEs, QB, and OT... Bc
    That's very true Bc. This draft favored the offense (maybe not the 1st or 2nd round Wide Receivers everyone wanted), but it did favor what the team perceived its needs to be. Very good note indeed.





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