Is Baltimore's Football culture truly ready for an evolution?

[RevBarnes]

I liked the improvement in the run game that Roman's scheme seemed to bring. I could enjoy a better passing offense (with more weapons and fewer 1 yard passes to tight ends) but I have always felt that we had to keep things simple for Flacco. That was the mantra during his rookie year and it seems that we have always run the offense as if we were afraid of Joe making mistakes.

In a related side question for someone who knows more than me: What do we you believe Chris Moore's potential is?

[BcRaven]

Bc - True! I may exaggerate a wee bit on occasion...........

Oh, I never do that ... Bc

[gaiusrex]

I would like to see Flacco with a full, healthy off-season and regular season. Combine this with our existing o-line, running game, and a few gritty playmakers. I think that would be all we need. We are not the Patriots. We need predictable efficiency with a few big plays.

Then let the defense not give up a long drive on the last possession.

[BcRaven]

I would like to see Flacco with a full, healthy off-season and regular season. Combine this with our existing o-line, running game, and a few gritty playmakers. I think that would be all we need. We are not the Patriots. We need predictable efficiency with a few big plays.

Then let the defense not give up a long drive on the last possession.

Aye, there's the rub. Who are these gritty play-makers you speak of? Now I am hopeful we will draft WR/TE/O-line to fulfill your prediction, but until then it's wait-and-see... Bc

[footballfan]

Case in point. Marty Mornhinweg is given a fraction of what he honestly should, as far as resources in personnel. He's forced to implement an entirely different blocking scheme into his play-book, coordinated by another coach. Yet, there is far littler patience for someone like him. However, Dean Pees has been the Defensive Coordinator since the start of the 2012 season. While there were calls for him being overrated, you really didn't hear the fanbase largely grumble about him until 2016. Up until that point it was a lot of, 'Pees needs this', 'Pees needs that', 'Give Pees this and you'll see how he coaches differently'.

I still feel like passing offense in Baltimore is the unwanted Step-child.

The family and friends I have that are Ravens fans are hoping for a change in philosophy in regards to the football team that introduces more of a modernized offense that has playmakers to go to. The short version is they think the current team is old, stale and predictable.
Steeler fans to this day look at the Ravens as a Defense first kinda team but the offense currently does not scare anyone.

[Coram_Nobis]

The last point you brought up is one that I've thought about before. For almost 20 years, there has been this pseudo-respect of the passing offense and great quarterbacks. I say that, because while we need better QB play than what we've had I don't think that's what fans want in one sense. I think Baltimore fans want a QB not taking up a lot of cap, so that they can build the defense, build the line and run the ball. That is where I feel like they want their money spent.

You are right in that this approach doesn't preclude being successful. However, there's a passionate defense of it around the city, in a beloved manner.

When I hear people say, "We need to get back to what we do best. The only way the Ravens have done it is with....etc.", I think to myself, "What other way have we genuinely tried?". Not half-heartedly tried, because plan A didn't work. I mean, genuinely, thoroughly, tried over the course of several seasons? With that in mind, of course one would think it's the only way that's work. Oddly enough, however, that's not how it worked in 2012 and it's as if that has become forgotten.

I've been typing on here for years that there is a phobia of philosophical change with a large contingent of the Baltimore fanbase. If a passing offense does well, en route to a title, you won't here much of this fanbase talk about trying to do things their way with the way they spend their picks, money and drill home their offensive philosophy to a tee. If a defensive-led team wins the Super Bowl, I feel like you'll hear far more "See, defense wins Championships. We need to get back to defensive football".

First things first: if they win it won't matter to the fans how. If they win offensively it will be because they have good offensive players to carry them to victory. That, then, will become the identity. But for 15 years their best players were on defense and so that was the team's identity.

I bolded the "we" because I don't know who "we" are? Since Ray and Ed departed the team lost its identity. The next best player on the team, the home-grown talent who was top five at his position, who had an edge to his personality -- who had talent and energy that made for leadership and identity -- that guy punched his girlfriend.

Since then, the identity of this team has been wrapped in its coaches. It looked we were going to be Kubiak-team: stretch zone that makes any RB effective; coupled with a target-magnet WR ala Andre Johnson; with a strong-armed QB who could roll out just often enough to keep defenses off balance. It looked good in 2014. Come draft day 2015, Perriman was supposed that No.1 WR. Williams was the consensus best TE in the draft. Again, good QB; RD 1 WR; the draft class's best TE; and "any Kubiak RB," meant the team's identity was ready to shift to offense.

Kubiak leaves.
Joe gets hurt.
Perriman and Williams underwhelm.

I imagine the front office thought to itself: "We need to win; it doesn't matter how. Looking at who we have on the roster, and who's available in free agency and the draft, what's the quickest way to win? Defense. Let's get Weddle, keep Brandon Williams, finally fix the problem of CB opposite Smith, and get Mosely a partner in the middle."

If the team had drafted Beckham rather than Mosely, and if a similar confluence of injuries and departures happened, then I think the philosophy would still be the same. The question would be the same: "What's the quickest way to win?" Only this time the answer would be "Offense" because because the player to build around, Beckham, would already be in a place.

If they get a great player they will build around him. They will win. That will be the team's identity. Fan culture will glorify or elevate that winning style.

The Ravens haven't developed a great player in about 10 years. The fan culture is that of a soft-nostalgia rather than something vibrant and present-minded. We are a "was" rather than an "are" culture.

[HbgPARavenfan]

I was just reading a book, not pertaining to the Ravens, that still managed to get me thinking about comparisons for some of the information I gathered from it. The Ravens were a good comparison. Without going into too much detail, the underpinnings of recent Baltimore football culture, from a philosophical perspective, have been a strong rush offense supporting a focal pointed defense. However, the impetus of the 2012 Super Bowl playoff run was the passing offense, which out-shined both aforementioned aspects of the team.

There was a discussion that came up in the Lamar Jackson thread, about whether or not the Ravens coaching staff could maximize Jackson's skill-set. By comparison, Andy Reid was mentioned as a coach who he could benefit from, mind you, with the understanding that Mahomes is his chosen guy. Reid was used more as an example in this case. The point was brought up that Marty Mornhinweg was on Reid's staff, not only for successful offensive years in Philadelphia, but also for a successful time with Michael Vick. More than one analyst/pundit has felt that Jackson is the most athletic QB prospect since Vick.

The counter-point was that Reid oversaw that offense, and that it was more so Reid's show than Marty's.

Looking at the Ravens 2017 season, from the very beginning, I had concerns with Greg Roman bringing in a different run blocking scheme from that which Mornhinweg is most comfortable. The zone blocking scheme that Mornhinweg prefers to use and is most known for, was very key to the success of his playbook and play-calling overall. Especially, the screens that the Eagles were known for. There are varying disciplines to the varying run blocking schemes. As a result, while the rush offense did improve, it did so at the cost of a portion of Mornhinweg's playbook. The screens were largely ineffective in 2017, with Mornhinweg trying to call them in Roman's blocking scheme. One thing I can say about Reid is that Reid, like Kubiak, would not have allowed this lack of symmetry. There's this vibe I get that there is little to no concern over the passing offense being compromised, due to the contrast in styles, as long as the rush offense improves.

While none of us are happy with the way that the offense performed, I get the sense around the city that the Fan-base is glad that the rush offense improved. Dare I say, to the point that there is no concern for at what costs the improvement was made. This, in my opinion, tells me that there is still a large portion of the fan-base that is not ready for the passing offense to take on a larger role in the team philosophy. The talk of QB play, and the definite need for improvement at that spot, seems to be window dressing. I still get the impression that fans are trying to find ways to win with the defense leading the way. Even during the 2016 season when we threw the ball far more than we usually do. The discussion wasn't to get better play-makers and fine tune the passing offense. The discussion seemed to center around getting back to what the Ravens do best. Oddly enough, since Vinny was here, the only way they've truly tried with asserted effort: Running the ball well and playing strong defense.

For those of you in Baltimore, do you get the same sense from the fan-base that I do? For those of you outside of Baltimore, what vibe do you pick up from Ravens fans around you and fans of other teams' views of the Ravens?

Outside Baltimore, people dont watch the ravens literally AT ALL. We're boring.

People think our defense is still like top 1-3 every year in every catagory because they never watch us.... any primetime game where we lose in the last 2 minutes...they're *shocked* our defense gave up the game... I just chuckle now

[The Excellector]

First things first: if they win it won't matter to the fans how. If they win offensively it will be because they have good offensive players to carry them to victory. That, then, will become the identity. But for 15 years their best players were on defense and so that was the team's identity.

I bolded the "we" because I don't know who "we" are? Since Ray and Ed departed the team lost its identity. The next best player on the team, the home-grown talent who was top five at his position, who had an edge to his personality -- who had talent and energy that made for leadership and identity -- that guy punched his girlfriend.

Since then, the identity of this team has been wrapped in its coaches. It looked we were going to be Kubiak-team: stretch zone that makes any RB effective; coupled with a target-magnet WR ala Andre Johnson; with a strong-armed QB who could roll out just often enough to keep defenses off balance. It looked good in 2014. Come draft day 2015, Perriman was supposed that No.1 WR. Williams was the consensus best TE in the draft. Again, good QB; RD 1 WR; the draft class's best TE; and "any Kubiak RB," meant the team's identity was ready to shift to offense.

Kubiak leaves.
Joe gets hurt.
Perriman and Williams underwhelm.

I imagine the front office thought to itself: "We need to win; it doesn't matter how. Looking at who we have on the roster, and who's available in free agency and the draft, what's the quickest way to win? Defense. Let's get Weddle, keep Brandon Williams, finally fix the problem of CB opposite Smith, and get Mosely a partner in the middle."

If the team had drafted Beckham rather than Mosely, and if a similar confluence of injuries and departures happened, then I think the philosophy would still be the same. The question would be the same: "What's the quickest way to win?" Only this time the answer would be "Offense" because because the player to build around, Beckham, would already be in a place.

If they get a great player they will build around him. They will win. That will be the team's identity. Fan culture will glorify or elevate that winning style.

The Ravens haven't developed a great player in about 10 years. The fan culture is that of a soft-nostalgia rather than something vibrant and present-minded. We are a "was" rather than an "are" culture.

But that's just is Coram. We did win in 2012 with the passing offense leading the way and the philosophy didn't change.

[tomrose9]

Our offence (or lack thereof for the cynical amongst us) could have done with a more athletic/mobile QB to save plays. I understand why we did not sign Colin Kaepernick, but we missed a trick not picking up RG3 as a cheap back up on a 1 year prove you’ve still got it deal. The game favours more mobile QB’s like Wilson, Wentz, Newton etc. So we need to get with the times.


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[GOTA]

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Giants fans talking shit is funny. No one fears their sad ass team either. And the Jets? Well, in the words of Clay Davis....Sheeeiiiiit.

They're not talking shit. That's the whole point. They are barely talking about the Ravens. If they didn't know I was a fan the Ravens would never even come up because there is so little to talk about. Ex asked what fans in areas outside of Baltimore are hearing. That's how this came up. My area is 75% Giants fans. The rest are evenly split between the Jets and Patriots.

[DonNMass]

They're not talking shit. That's the whole point. They are barely talking about the Ravens. If they didn't know I was a fan the Ravens would never even come up because there is so little to talk about. Ex asked what fans in areas outside of Baltimore are hearing. That's how this came up. My area is 75% Giants fans. The rest are evenly split between the Jets and Patriots.

Same here GOTA a few miles up 91 from you. More Patriots' fans with some Giants and Jets mixed in.

As I mentioned in other threads, Raven's are irrelevant up here. They were feared for a while but not the last 5 years to the anger, dismay, and denial of SB last presser. I read posts on here how the Raven's are the one team the Patriots want to avoid in the PO's. LMAO. Those days are long gone. Some Patriots fans attribute that to Flacco's contract, the others to Pees and Harbaugh vanilla style. Whatever, the Raven's Brand is gone. For me, I can't get excited after tolerating Pees staying 5 years too long and knowing I'll be saying the same thing about Harbaugh next year this time.

[HbgPARavenfan]

"At an end our rule is.....not *long* enough it was"