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Thread: Football 101

  1. #109

    Re: Football 101

    thanks all for the contributions. learned a lot





  2. #110
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    Re: Football 101

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle View Post
    You think if JJ Watts broke his hand and had to miss a month he may as well miss the season? My argument is the opposite. They should be placed on short term IR and return
    I agree. The roster system is similar to blackouts. They are concepts that may have made sense 40 or 50 years ago but don't in the modern game. It took them a ridiculously long time but they finally got rid of the blackout rules. It's time to do the same for roster spots. The owners can afford to field a team. They don't need to try and keep salaries at a minimum. The want 18 game seasons and modernizing rosters with a disabled list should be part of it.





  3. #111
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    Re: Football 101

    What is the difference between the X and the Z receiver?

    I mean, I know that in a standard "pro set" the Z lines up on the strong side and the X lines up by himself on the weak side. But I mean, what's the difference in skill set? What's the prototype for the X vs for the Z?





  4. #112
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    Re: Football 101

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    What is the difference between the X and the Z receiver?

    I mean, I know that in a standard "pro set" the Z lines up on the strong side and the X lines up by himself on the weak side. But I mean, what's the difference in skill set? What's the prototype for the X vs for the Z?
    Y do you ask? ... Bc





  5. #113
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    Re: Football 101

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    What is the difference between the X and the Z receiver?

    I mean, I know that in a standard "pro set" the Z lines up on the strong side and the X lines up by himself on the weak side. But I mean, what's the difference in skill set? What's the prototype for the X vs for the Z?
    X receivers are your do it all guys. Line up on the LOS

    Z receivers are usually your speed guys. Line up behind the LOS

    Usually the Z is on the same side of the formation as the TE or the slot. It isn't quite like it used to be back in the days of the I formation, wishbone, etc., but that's the general idea.

    Crabtree would be our X and Brown would be our Z right now.
    "Cause if you ain’t pissed off for greatness, that just means you’re okay with being mediocre, and ain’t no man in here okay with just basic.”
    - Ray Lewis

    https://www.baltimoreravens.com/author/cole-jackson

    Twitter: @ColeJacksonFB





  6. #114

    Re: Football 101

    One kinda dumb thing that you guys probably know: What are the differences between putting someone on PUP vs IR? I know you have the option to activate someone from IR, but I don't know if you can do that for PUP. If not, why not just always IR people to have the option to bring them back. Also how did the Chargers bring back Hunter Henry for the playoff game? Was he on PUP or IR. All the rules associated with those different lists confuse me.
    "That's not Donovan McNabb."





  7. #115

    Re: Football 101

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    What is the difference between the X and the Z receiver?

    I mean, I know that in a standard "pro set" the Z lines up on the strong side and the X lines up by himself on the weak side. But I mean, what's the difference in skill set? What's the prototype for the X vs for the Z?
    depends, but in general you X WR is wideout who typically lines up on the line of scrimmage and the Z wr is typically the one off the LOS.

    traditionally, your more well rounded WR (better at snap beating press, more precise route runner, more reliable) is designated the X.

    The Z is typically the more "Athletic" the more raw or pure talent guy with a little less polish. These guys typically play off the LOS so they can get a easier release.

    After that it starts to breakdown into individual offenses. Our Z was always the guy getting end arounds or shovel passes etc
    Burn it down





  8. #116

    Re: Football 101

    Quote Originally Posted by Derf View Post
    What is a "nickle defense"? How does it differ from other defensive formations (or stragedy)?
    Quote Originally Posted by helloharv View Post
    that means bringing in an extra cornerback when the offensive team goes to 3 WR
    Quote Originally Posted by helloharv View Post
    "base package" would be 2 CB and 2 Safeties

    nickel is adding one

    dime is adding two
    Maybe it goes without saying, but it's referred to as Nickel because it is Five DBs (the slot corner is the fifth, replacing a LB). Dime and Quarter aren't numerically correct for 6 and 7, but just the next coin increment up from Nickel.

    Nickel backs were a response to the fact that traditional, big, run stopping LBs coiuldn't cover and they needed to get them off the field on third down, whether that's to cover a slot receiver, or more recently, athletic tight ends who are hard to cover.

    As Harv points out, it was the frequency of offenses using "11 personnel" packages (3 WRs, 1 TE, 1 RB) that caused defenses to respond. The Ravens are one of the few teams in the last few years who use "12 personnel" (2 WR, 2 TE, 1 RB) just as often as 11. The 12 forces a team to decide if the Ravens will use the TEs to block (would rather have a LB in) or run a pattern (would prefer a slot).

    Further evidence of the blurring of "base" versus nickel is the trend toward hybrid S/LB's. Anthony Levine is noted as a DB/LB on the Ravens site. Kenny Young was drafted for his ability to cover. Patrick Onwausor was a safety in college (actually started as a WR). So the Will LB spot is morphing into this sort of position in response largely to what I dust described above, and the risk of having personnel mismatches.
    Last edited by Shas; 01-24-2019 at 11:00 AM.





  9. #117
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    Re: Football 101

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    But I mean, what's the difference in skill set? What's the prototype for the X vs for the Z?
    Good questions and I think the others pretty much have it covered. But the difference in skill set comes down to how they handle "press". The receiver that is better at beating press usually plays the X because they're going to face press much more often. The Z is off the line and can be motioned. But there are many other variables that go into where coaches place receivers based on skillset. I remember some coaches wanted the faster of their receivers at X because they were closer to the line and therefore would have a 1-2 yard "headstart" others want a fast Z to "lift" coverage for the TE.





  10. #118

    Re: Football 101

    Quote Originally Posted by Shrubbs View Post
    One kinda dumb thing that you guys probably know: What are the differences between putting someone on PUP vs IR? I know you have the option to activate someone from IR, but I don't know if you can do that for PUP. If not, why not just always IR people to have the option to bring them back. Also how did the Chargers bring back Hunter Henry for the playoff game? Was he on PUP or IR. All the rules associated with those different lists confuse me.
    Actually, a PUP designation was created expressly for allowing players to return to the active roster after recovering from an injury that was less than season ending. IR originally prohibited the player from sitting out the entire year. That requirement was put in because teams were paranoid that competitors, facing difficult roster cut-down decisions, would fake injuries to stash a player onto the IR and wait until another player inevitably was IR'd with a legit injury and slip the stashed guy back onto the roster. Making IR year-long prevented them from doing this.

    However, we all know teams use questionable injuries to "red shirt" young players not ready for prime time (i.e., Jaleel Scott), accepting not having their services for a full-year in order to retain their rights.

    Once they got over their paranoia, the league admitted that sometimes players actually have legit injuries that will take weeks to heal, but not necessarily all year to heal.

    That's when the PUP designation was created. It has stringent rules. It can only be used during preseason. Players on the preseason Active/PUP cannot practice with the team, they can only attend meetings. Once the 53 man is formed, they can only stay on the regular season Reserve/PUP if they were already on the preseason Active/PUP. You can't practice with the team for six weeks--only meetings, conditioning, rehab. After that, they then have a three week window to practice and the team must decide within that window if they want to make room on the 53 man roster for that player.

    They further relaxed these rules by creating the IR-Designated to Return rule, which allowed them to designate one player who carried the option to return after week 9. That rule was further relaxed in 2017, expanding it to two players, and dropping the stipulation that you had to designate who carries the option. Anyone two on the IR can return (or one, or none).

    So what's the difference between a PUP and IR player since they can both return (other than the window in weeks 6-9 vs post week 9)? An IR'd player must be on the 53-man roster in Week 1 to be eligible for the IR designation to return. Anyone who was placed on IR before roster cuts were made to trim the roster down to 53 players is not eligible to return. (again, to avoid shenanigans on choosing the 53. Teams will still play games, cutting a guy before the season who they think they can safely bring back, and then resigning him after someone else is cut--often because a cut after week 1 is easier to get onto the practice squad after all the other teams are forced to make decisions. Albert McClellan went through this as a veteran they thought was safe to expose). Recall that Danny Woodhead was a classic IR to Return guy after popping a hamstring in week 1. Not eligible for PUP, but eligible to go on IR and return after week 9.

    Oh, and to answer your question, Hunter Harvey was on the PUP because he tore the ACL in May, and therefore never participated in training camp.





  11. #119

    Re: Football 101

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    Actually, a PUP designation was created expressly for allowing players to return to the active roster after recovering from an injury that was less than season ending. IR originally prohibited the player from sitting out the entire year. That requirement was put in because teams were paranoid that competitors, facing difficult roster cut-down decisions, would fake injuries to stash a player onto the IR and wait until another player inevitably was IR'd with a legit injury and slip the stashed guy back onto the roster. Making IR year-long prevented them from doing this.

    However, we all know teams use questionable injuries to "red shirt" young players not ready for prime time (i.e., Jaleel Scott), accepting not having their services for a full-year in order to retain their rights.

    Once they got over their paranoia, the league admitted that sometimes players actually have legit injuries that will take weeks to heal, but not necessarily all year to heal.

    That's when the PUP designation was created. It has stringent rules. It can only be used during preseason. Players on the preseason Active/PUP cannot practice with the team, they can only attend meetings. Once the 53 man is formed, they can only stay on the regular season Reserve/PUP if they were already on the preseason Active/PUP. You can't practice with the team for six weeks--only meetings, conditioning, rehab. After that, they then have a three week window to practice and the team must decide within that window if they want to make room on the 53 man roster for that player.

    They further relaxed these rules by creating the IR-Designated to Return rule, which allowed them to designate one player who carried the option to return after week 9. That rule was further relaxed in 2017, expanding it to two players, and dropping the stipulation that you had to designate who carries the option. Anyone two on the IR can return (or one, or none).

    So what's the difference between a PUP and IR player since they can both return (other than the window in weeks 6-9 vs post week 9)? An IR'd player must be on the 53-man roster in Week 1 to be eligible for the IR designation to return. Anyone who was placed on IR before roster cuts were made to trim the roster down to 53 players is not eligible to return. (again, to avoid shenanigans on choosing the 53. Teams will still play games, cutting a guy before the season who they think they can safely bring back, and then resigning him after someone else is cut--often because a cut after week 1 is easier to get onto the practice squad after all the other teams are forced to make decisions. Albert McClellan went through this as a veteran they thought was safe to expose). Recall that Danny Woodhead was a classic IR to Return guy after popping a hamstring in week 1. Not eligible for PUP, but eligible to go on IR and return after week 9.
    So I guess Hunter Henry was on IR and was one of the 2 guys they had return? And there's no limit to how many PUP guys can be brought back? When does that 3 week window of practice start? As soon as week 6 ends? Or can teams decide when to start that 6 week countdown?
    "That's not Donovan McNabb."





  12. #120

    Re: Football 101

    Quote Originally Posted by Shas View Post
    Actually, a PUP designation was created expressly for allowing players to return to the active roster after recovering from an injury that was less than season ending. IR originally prohibited the player from sitting out the entire year. That requirement was put in because teams were paranoid that competitors, facing difficult roster cut-down decisions, would fake injuries to stash a player onto the IR and wait until another player inevitably was IR'd with a legit injury and slip the stashed guy back onto the roster. Making IR year-long prevented them from doing this.

    However, we all know teams use questionable injuries to "red shirt" young players not ready for prime time (i.e., Jaleel Scott), accepting not having their services for a full-year in order to retain their rights.

    Once they got over their paranoia, the league admitted that sometimes players actually have legit injuries that will take weeks to heal, but not necessarily all year to heal.

    That's when the PUP designation was created. It has stringent rules. It can only be used during preseason. Players on the preseason Active/PUP cannot practice with the team, they can only attend meetings. Once the 53 man is formed, they can only stay on the regular season Reserve/PUP if they were already on the preseason Active/PUP. You can't practice with the team for six weeks--only meetings, conditioning, rehab. After that, they then have a three week window to practice and the team must decide within that window if they want to make room on the 53 man roster for that player.

    They further relaxed these rules by creating the IR-Designated to Return rule, which allowed them to designate one player who carried the option to return after week 9. That rule was further relaxed in 2017, expanding it to two players, and dropping the stipulation that you had to designate who carries the option. Anyone two on the IR can return (or one, or none).

    So what's the difference between a PUP and IR player since they can both return (other than the window in weeks 6-9 vs post week 9)? An IR'd player must be on the 53-man roster in Week 1 to be eligible for the IR designation to return. Anyone who was placed on IR before roster cuts were made to trim the roster down to 53 players is not eligible to return. (again, to avoid shenanigans on choosing the 53. Teams will still play games, cutting a guy before the season who they think they can safely bring back, and then resigning him after someone else is cut--often because a cut after week 1 is easier to get onto the practice squad after all the other teams are forced to make decisions. Albert McClellan went through this as a veteran they thought was safe to expose). Recall that Danny Woodhead was a classic IR to Return guy after popping a hamstring in week 1. Not eligible for PUP, but eligible to go on IR and return after week 9.

    Oh, and to answer your question, Hunter Harvey was on the PUP because he tore the ACL in May, and therefore never participated in training camp.
    One more question Shas, if a team goes through the 6 week process with the PUP, and decides they don't want the guy on the 53, can they transfer him from the PUP directly to IR?
    "That's not Donovan McNabb."





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