Diggs' Mom to Ozzie: "They should fire your a$$"

[leachisabeast]

i dont believe anything that comes out of the ravens PR department.

btw harbs made hostler, who was completely unqualified, one of the 2 finalists for the position. thats all i need to know.

Harbs didn't want Kubes he wanted hostler. There waa a big argument over it behind the scenes. Steve and Oz stepped in and over rided Harbs. Why do you think Hostler left after Kubes waa hired....

[WrongBaldy]

Harbs didn't want Kubes he wanted hostler. There waa a big argument over it behind the scenes. Steve and Oz stepped in and over rided Harbs. Why do you think Hostler left after Kubes waa hired....

agree leach. i think the timeline i set out in the previous posts supports this narrative

[HbgPARavenfan]

agree leach. i think the timeline i set out in the previous posts supports this narrative

Why Barbs still here

[xiao_ke]

Why Barbs still here

#Continuity (fml)

[Shas]

Only 90% of this board wanted the Ravens to draft him. Go back and look at the draft day threads.

Diggs wasn't a feel good story. He wasn't a red star player, as Harbaugh likes to put it.

Word is that he showed up at the interview with a few of his friends, and it cast him in a negative light.

You touched on two points I wanted to address in this thread. Yes, many of us were really pulling hard for the Ravens to take Diggs. (and not because he and I share a birthday).

He was never projected as a wide out...always as a slot guy with incredible yards after catch ability. If for no other reason I figured the Ravens would grab him in the middle of the draft as a punt returner. They knew they were not resigning the incumbent there, Jacoby Jones, and his back up, Campanaro, had yet to show he could remain healthy. They didn't even bring in an UDFA returner that year, strangely.

(Anyone remember one guy they did have in camp as an UDFA? I'm thinking of Harvard tackle Nick Easton. Yep, the guy who started at guard for the Vikings this year until he broke an ankle around Christmas. The Ravens ended up trading Easton to San Fran in training camp. San Fran, a month later, traded him to the Vikings. I lost track of what happened to the draft pick the Ravens were supposed to get for Easton)

So why were so many fans "right" about Diggs and so many teams wrong?

The talk at the time was injury history (Broken leg and lacerated kidney). While that was reported, the Ravens never said why. They never will tell you why they Don't take a player.

You hinted at his attitude. Makes me wonder. Here is a nice piece that just ran in SB Nation from a writer who went to UMD with Diggs, and he addresses the reasons he fell to the fifth.

Namely: some injuries, projected as slot-only, not much playing strength, not great stats because he played on a shit team for four years, and off the field questions.

I wanted to zero-in on the last point, which you've raised. And I want to tie it back to a point Tony Lombardi raised in a post a week or so ago. And that is the question of whether Harbaugh is having undue influence over the draft.

I theorized that once the board is set, by joint consensus, it's set, and Harbaugh wouldn't be able to interfere. So I wasn't inclined to believe this. I figure Harbaugh would and should provide Ozzie with a list of roster spots where he wanted to get better, and the type of player that fits their scheme, and then get out of the way. That was my thinking.

Tony indicated that he knew things that support his assertion, other than Harbaugh's own press conference claims that he and Ozzie work together on the draft.

Now I'm wondering if Harbaugh is insistent on black-balling a substantial list of guys each year with any kind of character concerns. Harbaugh seems like a very spiritual, old-school, somewhat up-tight guy. I can see where he'd be particular in wanting a certain kind of locker room. People have speculated he clashed with free-spirit, vocal personalities like Reed and Pollard over the years. Whereas well-mannered boys from BYU are A OK with John.

Did the Ravens devalue Diggs, and even take him off the board because Harbaugh's super-conservative views on character? Is that an accurate portrayal of his philosophy? Has that philosophy tainted draft decisions?

Conversely, did the Ravens elevate their rating of a receiver like Breshard Perriman because, by all accounts, he's a super-good guy with an NFL pedigree (i.e., he knows "how to go about his business?")

I'm normally in a position where I'm defending Harbaugh for what I consider irrational, unsubstantiated criticisms. However, this is one issue, if true, is one I really am going to have a problem with. The draft is too important to get this wrong.

You can go right down the roster, from Joe Flacco to CJ Mosely to Ronnie Stanely to Eric Weddle to Brandon Williams -- the guys they've invested the most in, and it's a very low key, congenial, cerebral bunch.

As I look at the Jacksonville Jaguars--or Stefon Diggs for that matter--I see a swagger that people used to associate with the Ravens. I wonder if Harbaugh has methodically, surgically removed that sort of player from his team?

Great NFL wide receivers have, for years and years, be known to be divas--that was the label so often applied. If Harbaugh has prevented Ozzie from considering "divas" it's no wonder they can't draft receivers.

Tony Lombardi, feel free to message me if you can shed more light on this question ;)

[Jazz1988]

Harbs didn't want Kubes he wanted hostler. There waa a big argument over it behind the scenes. Steve and Oz stepped in and over rided Harbs. Why do you think Hostler left after Kubes waa hired....

What I don't get is why did they feel the need to do so after just winning the super bowl with the same head coach not so long ago at the time. It really seems worried to me that The Ravens owner and general manager would feel the need to override a head coach who had won so many games and more for the team. If anything that shows the lack of trust in John Harbaugh decision making coordinator wise and that's a bold move to do so especially towards a fresh super bowl winning head coach .

When it comes to Jim Hostler leaving after Kubiak was hired it would seems reasonable to believe that he possibly wanted a fresh start especially if he had the goal to be a offensive coordinator again. The guy literally learned under Cam Cameron for five years and then got passed over by quarterback coach(Jim Caldwell) that had no previous coordinator experience at all in The NFl after Cam was fired. If his ultimate goal is to be a coordinator again then I don't see why he would want to stay on The Ravens coaching staff after getting passed over twice. If he wasn't getting the coordinator position at that time what would make him think he would get it again at another time?.

[Greg]

Except sometimes he really is brutal.

I kind of don't care anymore. I'd like for Joe to have some success over the next couple seasons. But I'd really like us to draft a successor. Joe is not getting any younger.

And sometimes he is elite.

[Culex]

And sometimes he is elite.

And by sometimes you mean 2012 playoffs

[alien bird]

You touched on two points I wanted to address in this thread. Yes, many of us were really pulling hard for the Ravens to take Diggs. (and not because he and I share a birthday).

He was never projected as a wide out...always as a slot guy with incredible yards after catch ability. If for no other reason I figured the Ravens would grab him in the middle of the draft as a punt returner. They knew they were not resigning the incumbent there, Jacoby Jones, and his back up, Campanaro, had yet to show he could remain healthy. They didn't even bring in an UDFA returner that year, strangely.

(Anyone remember one guy they did have in camp as an UDFA? I'm thinking of Harvard tackle Nick Easton. Yep, the guy who started at guard for the Vikings this year until he broke an ankle around Christmas. The Ravens ended up trading Easton to San Fran in training camp. San Fran, a month later, traded him to the Vikings. I lost track of what happened to the draft pick the Ravens were supposed to get for Easton)

So why were so many fans "right" about Diggs and so many teams wrong?

The talk at the time was injury history (Broken leg and lacerated kidney). While that was reported, the Ravens never said why. They never will tell you why they Don't take a player.

You hinted at his attitude. Makes me wonder. Here is a nice peace that just ran in SB Nation from a writer who went to UMD with Diggs, and he addresses the reasons he fell to the fifth.

Namely: some injuries, projected as slot-only, not much playing strength, not great stats because he played on a shit team for four years, and off the field questions.

I wanted to zero-in on the last point, which you've raised. And I want to tie it back to a point Tony Lombardi raised in a post a week or so ago. And that is the question of whether Harbaugh is having undue influence over the draft.

I theorized that once the board is set, by joint consensus, it's set, and Harbaugh wouldn't be able to interfere. So I wasn't inclined to believe this. I figure Harbaugh would and should provide Ozzie with a list of roster spots where he wanted to get better, and the type of player that fits their scheme, and then get out of the way. That was my thinking.

Tony indicated that he knew things that support his assertion, other than Harbaugh's own press conference claims that he and Ozzie work together on the draft.

Now I'm wondering if Harbaugh is insistent on black-balling a substantial list of guys each year with any kind of character concerns. Harbaugh seems like a very spiritual, old-school, somewhat up-tight guy. I can see where he'd be particular in wanting a certain kind of locker room. People have speculated he clashed with free-spirit, vocal personalities like Reed and Pollard over the years. Whereas well-mannered boys from BYU are A OK with John.

Did the Ravens devalue Diggs, and even take him off the board because Harbaugh's super-conservative views on character? Is that an accurate portrayal of his philosophy? Has that philosophy tainted draft decisions?

Conversely, did the Ravens elevate their rating of a receiver like Breshard Perriman because, by all accounts, he's a super-good guy with an NFL pedigree (i.e., he knows "how to go about his business?")

I'm normally in a position where I'm defending Harbaugh for what I consider irrational, unsubstantiated criticisms. However, this is one issue, if true, is one I really am going to have a problem with. The draft is too important to get this wrong.

You can go right down the roster, from Joe Flacco to CJ Mosely to Ronnie Stanely to Eric Weddle to Brandon Williams -- the guys they've invested the most in, and it's a very low key, congenial, cerebral bunch.

As I look at the Jacksonville Jaguars--or Stefon Diggs for that matter--I see a swagger that people used to associate with the Ravens. I wonder if Harbaugh has methodically, surgically removed that sort of player from his team?

Great NFL wide receivers have, for years and years, be known to be divas--that was the label so often applied. If Harbaugh has prevented Ozzie from considering "divas" it's no wonder they can't draft receivers.

Tony Lombardi, feel free to message me if you can shed more light on this question ;)

This is a great post and probably has a large degree of truth to it. High character guy, great teammate, coach's son - those are the guys the Ravens draft.

[Greg]

And by sometimes you mean 2012 playoffs

Uh, no. Two years in a row he won in Pittsburgh on the final drive with TD passes. He threw 5 TDs in just over a quarter in Tampa. He had a pretty good 2011 playoff run including a game winning pass dropped by Lee Evans that should have at least resulted in a game tying FG in the AFCCG (which he got us to). There are many, many more examples. To claim Flacco had one 4 game stretch playing at a high level is just completely wrong.

I get it, his "slumps" are downright maddening. He seems to play his best when under pressure. He is the anti-Boller in that Boller was continually frenetic where Joe is continually Mr. Ice Veins. But when there is little pressure in regular season game 4 against a crap team he plays down to them.

Why? Who knows.

But please don't act like he hasn't played great football at many times outside the 2012 playoffs.

[bst3975]

You touched on two points I wanted to address in this thread. Yes, many of us were really pulling hard for the Ravens to take Diggs. (and not because he and I share a birthday). Etc. Etc.

You make many excellent points I am in no position to argue.

But on the other side, consider that (1) Oz, presumably with Harbs approval, has signed players previously deemed to be malcontents or difficult (example, Wallace, SSR), and (2) we regularly hears players extol Harbs for supposedly urging them to "be themselves".

I'm not sure what to believe.

[Culex]

Uh, no. Two years in a row he won in Pittsburgh on the final drive with TD passes. He threw 5 TDs in just over a quarter in Tampa. He had a pretty good 2011 playoff run including a game winning pass dropped by Lee Evans that should have at least resulted in a game tying FG in the AFCCG (which he got us to). There are many, many more examples. To claim Flacco had one 4 game stretch playing at a high level is just completely wrong.

I get it, his "slumps" are downright maddening. He seems to play his best when under pressure. He is the anti-Boller in that Boller was continually frenetic where Joe is continually Mr. Ice Veins. But when there is little pressure in regular season game 4 against a crap team he plays down to them.

Why? Who knows.

But please don't act like he hasn't played great football at many times outside the 2012 playoffs.

Yea I mean Nick Foles threw 7 TDs in one game. That's pretty elite but now he's a backup. I'm ready for Joe to show me a full-scale elite SEASON as a whole or at least another 2012 January/February run.