Coaching set up questions

**redbarron** · 01-10-2018, 11:57 AM

So I understand that a coach's job is to coach players to the best of their abilities. What I don't understand entirely is how coaches from different positions (Mike Macdonald-Secondary Coach to now Linebacker coach) get these jobs. Wouldn't a vacancy for a linebacker coach prompt a hire of a said linebacker coach. I can see maybe coaches from positions linked to other positions (Urban- former WR coach to now Qb coach) kind of makes sense a little but why have Macdonald be the linebacker coach when he was a secondary guy? Wouldn't we want someone who knows how to teach linebackers be the coach?

**JimZipCode** · 01-10-2018, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by redbarron

What I don't understand entirely is how coaches from different positions (Mike Macdonald-Secondary Coach to now Linebacker coach) get these jobs. Wouldn't a vacancy for a linebacker coach prompt a hire of a said linebacker coach. I can see maybe coaches from positions linked to other positions (Urban- former WR coach to now Qb coach) kind of makes sense a little but why have Macdonald be the linebacker coach when he was a secondary guy? Wouldn't we want someone who knows how to teach linebackers be the coach?

Yeah, I don't fully understand that either. But you see it a LOT, when you put together timelines for coaches.

Esp common in college. A guy will start out as a grad asst at the position he played, and then branch out across other positions. You can look at Harbaugh's own career. Harbaugh played DB in college: within a couple years he had coached RBs and OLBs at Western Michigan. In 1987 he was coaching TEs at Pittsburgh (working with Sid Gillman!). At the lower levels, a coach just needs to be a coach.

i think it's less common in the pro's, for a guy to coach an entirely new position. This may have something to do with the LB coach still being on staff, at DC. Maybe Wink wants this guy to function as sort of his assistant: run the drills Wink tells him to, etc. I really don't know.

I'd be curious what actual position this guy played in college or HS. I didn't see that in the brief look at his bio I took this morning.

Urban is a bad example, BTW. Urban was a QB coach for the Eagles, 2009-10. So hiring him to be a QB coach is completely justified by his resume.

**redbarron** · 01-10-2018, 12:19 PM

That also just raises more questions why because say Macdonald played Linebacker in HS or whatever; its been a long time between then and now. I mean this is professional football, wouldn't you spend the money to get the best available linebacker coach to teach pass rush, coverage, etc. instead of a DB coach?

I forgot while writing that Urban was a QB coach while writing this so yeah his hire is justified (for the record I'm on board with him) but I can see how having former WR coach be a QB coach would be beneficial (giving Joe a different perspective from a WR on where to throw the ball, timing concerns, things like that); but with Macdonald I dont see how DB and LB mesh aside from coverage.

**sawraven1** · 01-10-2018, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by redbarron

So I understand that a coach's job is to coach players to the best of their abilities. What I don't understand entirely is how coaches from different positions (Mike Macdonald-Secondary Coach to now Linebacker coach) get these jobs. Wouldn't a vacancy for a linebacker coach prompt a hire of a said linebacker coach. I can see maybe coaches from positions linked to other positions (Urban- former WR coach to now Qb coach) kind of makes sense a little but why have Macdonald be the linebacker coach when he was a secondary guy? Wouldn't we want someone who knows how to teach linebackers be the coach?

Your logic makes sense to everyone outside of the Ravens organization pretty much and a few of their die hard Harbaugh apologists.

Its the square peg into round hold logic that Harbaugh loves.

Lets hire the Bengals WR coach, well make him a QB coach. If anything i would think the Bengals WR coach should be trying to coach up the weakest group on the Ravens the WRS but what do us fans know?

If it makes sense, you can bet the opposite will be done here.

**Shas** · 01-10-2018, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by sawraven1

Your logic makes sense to everyone outside of the Ravens organization pretty much and a few of their die hard Harbaugh apologists.

Its the square peg into round hold logic that Harbaugh loves.

Lets hire the Bengals WR coach, well make him a QB coach. If anything i would think the Bengals WR coach should be trying to coach up the weakest group on the Ravens the WRS but what do us fans know?

If it makes sense, you can bet the opposite will be done here.

Except the truth is that there is absolutely nothing out of the ordinary in making this hire. Transitioning between QB coach and WR coach makes complete sense and happens all the time.

But I realize haters will hate and find any excuse to criticize Harbaugh, however illogical their complaint is. And when presented with a logical reason why there is nothing wrong with this sort of move, the "apologist" word gets thrown out. Sigh.

But here's why it is not a boneheaded hire.

Offensive units don't operate in a vacuum. It's a team game. Coaches are teaching not just technique, but the role of their unit in the overall scheme. In this case, we're talking about the passing game in general, not just receiver skills.

It makes complete sense for receivers to understand route trees and where the quarterback wants to go with the ball based on reading defenses. One of the reasons college receivers struggle in the NFL is because they need to read defenses before the snap in the exact same way their QB does and adjust their route accordingly--or choose the route option--based on what the defense is doing. Hopefully you understand how QB and WR are complimentary roles.

It's the same reason we see the concept of "running game coordinator." It's not just what the interior line is doing, or what the running back is doing, it's what they are doing together...and increasingly (for the Ravens in particular) it's how a team is using tight ends as well.

Here is more proof that this is a normal move.

Below are the NFL careers of four coaches I randomly grabbed.

Special assistant
Assistant special teams coach
Receivers coach
Assistant special teams coach & defensive assistant
Special teams coach & defensive assistant
Linebackers coach & special teams coach
Defensive coordinator
Head coach
Assistant head coach & defensive backs coach
Assistant head coach & defensive coordinator
Head coach

Offensive assistant
Offensive line coach
Quarterbacks coach & assistant head coach
Head coach

Quarterbacks coach
Offensive coordinator
Wide receivers coach
Offensive coordinator
Offensive coordinator & interim head coach
Head coach

Running backs coach
Offensive coordinator
Wide receivers coach
Offensive coordinator
Quarterbacks coach
Offensive coordinator
Head coach
Secondary assistant & special teams coach
Running backs coach
Offensive coordinator
Head coach

The coaches, by the way, are Bill Belichick, Andy Reid, Bruce Ariens and Hue Jackson. Were these moves really square pegs in round holes as their careers progress?

I would argue that moving into different roles helped not only the team, but the coach, as they built a career.

It's no different than in any other business. There are some very large organizations that require employees move into different roles every year or two, because it's healthy. Only a narrow minded observer--or someone with some other ax to grind--can't see that.

**redbarron** · 01-10-2018, 02:19 PM

My only concern with having a DB coach take over LB's is that we have mainly players on their rookie deals. Those guys need all the LB centric help they can get. Mosley and Suggs are fine for the most part development wise, but T. Williams was a non-factor. Bowser's only big game really was against Cleveland week 2 and proceeded to plateau with sacks against miami and Pitt round 2. Correa (whether at ILB or OLB) is a dud right now, Z. Smith isn't all that dynamic and the other guys are relative no names. We should be looking for a cultivator type position coach to teach the young guys the ins and outs of the Linebacker position.

**Ortizer** · 01-10-2018, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by redbarron

My only concern with having a DB coach take over LB's is that we have mainly players on their rookie deals. Those guys need all the LB centric help they can get. Mosley and Suggs are fine for the most part development wise, but T. Williams was a non-factor. Bowser's only big game really was against Cleveland week 2 and proceeded to plateau with sacks against miami and Pitt round 2. Correa (whether at ILB or OLB) is a dud right now, Z. Smith isn't all that dynamic and the other guys are relative no names. We should be looking for a cultivator type position coach to teach the young guys the ins and outs of the Linebacker position.

Maybe they saw us try to cover tes last year and felt this was needed?

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk