Final NFL QB Rankings by PFF Player Grades, 2017

**trailhiker85** · 01-11-2018, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by JonAB

Well no, I’d say dominate defenses do that. Good but not great defenses, as I would characterize this one, are 50/50 propositions in that spot. They were in that spot twice in the game, stopped them the first time and failed the second time. This clearly was a defense worthy of the playoffs, but the team as a whole was not.

We disagree on semantics. In my view, it shouldn't take a dominant defense to stop Andy Dalton on a 4th and 12.

As for the team as a whole being unworthy of the playoffs, well, to paraphrase a former coach, "You are what your record says you are".

**lowrider** · 01-11-2018, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by boller4president

I wouldn't of said it if I didn't believe it. I think you are discounting how bad Flacco was to start the season sure he had that little spurt at the end but for most of the year he was putting up Kizer like numbers.

If you don't think competent qb play early would have made a difference then I don't know what to tell you. All this bemoaning about the last game and look I get it - it was a sucky way to lose the season but the good teams with good qb's take care of business early.

No I am not discounting how bad Joe played early on. If you can follow along I said he played like shit early on for a variety of reasons, most of which you seem to ignore. He turned it up in the 2nd half and played well enough to put us in a position to make the playoffs, in spite of the pitiful excuse for pass catchers we had . Do you agree?

Regardless of how anybody played early in the season, when your offense gets you a 3 point lead at the end of game 16, with your season and a playoff berth on the line, that’s all you can ask of them. Fuck what happened in week 3 or 4, that’s history. What was in front of them was a chance to go to KC for the WC round.

As for the defense, they were not as great as advertised, and no where near as dependable as they should have been given the draft picks and FA additions over the past 4 years. If you can’t get it done when it counts what’s the point. Who cares about stats?

**JonAB** · 01-11-2018, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by lowrider

No I am not discounting how bad Joe played early on. If you can follow along I said he played like shit early on for a variety of reasons, most of which you seem to ignore. He turned it up in the 2nd half and played well enough to put us in a position to make the playoffs, in spite of the pitiful excuse for pass catchers we had . Do you agree?

Regardless of how anybody played early in the season, when your offense gets you a 3 point lead at the end of game 16, with your season and a playoff berth on the line, that’s all you can ask of them. Fuck what happened in week 3 or 4, that’s history. What was in front of them was a chance to go to KC for the WC round.

As for the defense, they were not as great as advertised, and no where near as dependable as they should have been given the draft picks and FA additions over the past 4 years. If you can’t get it done when it counts what’s the point. Who cares about stats?

Except Flaccos play ISNT the reason we had a shot at making the playoffs in Week 17. The defense and special teams were the reason we were in that spot, in spite of a poor offense for over half a season. Flacco and the offense also didn’t get it done in week 17, along with the defense.

**BcRaven** · 01-11-2018, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

7 of his 13 interceptions bounced off of his pass catcher's hands.

No explanation necessary... Bc

**The Excellector** · 01-11-2018, 07:58 PM

Which is the way the team was designed to be. It was designed for the defense to be the reason and designed for the defense to close out that sort of game.

**The Excellector** · 01-11-2018, 08:01 PM

It would be different if Flacco were given the Powerpuff Girls and still couldn't stop..........."Him"............, but he wasn't. He was given the Amoeba Boys, couldn't make them look any better than the Amoeba Boys the first half of the season, did make them look better than the Amoeba Boys the second half of the season and couldn't win an arms race at the end to keep the defense out of position to have a chance to blow it, which we all knew they would.

**JonAB** · 01-11-2018, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

Which is the way the team was designed to be. It was designed for the defense to be the reason and designed for the defense to close out that sort of game.

And that’s a bad design, unless you build the 2000 Ravens which is very rare.

I like the 2008-2012 Ravens myself. Strong defense complimented by a offense that could close games out. This offense never closes a game out, because it was set up to fail.

**Iamjacks** · 01-11-2018, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by lowrider

And I didn’t say that. Yes, Joe had a bad year, for various reasons. Scheme, injuries to key players, shitty receivers, and a bad back which none of the “get rid of Flacco” crowd gives much credence to. He missed most of training camp and only took a few snaps in preseason, but none of that matters either to some.

Joe is NOT the reason we are not in the playoffs folks. As bad a year as he had, he turned it up in the 2nd half of the season and put us in a position to go to the playoffs. Dr. Dean ended for us again this year, not Joe.

Also for at least half of the year, maybe all the year. He didn't warm up on the field or even throw to his receivers before games! I've been trying to get someone to answer the question of when if at all was he able to throw to his WR before games. That is a huge deal.

**lowrider** · 01-11-2018, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by Iamjacks

Also for at least half of the year, maybe all the year. He didn't warm up on the field or even throw to his receivers before games! I've been trying to get someone to answer the question of when if at all was he able to throw to his WR before games. That is a huge deal.

Good luck getting that question answered. His back injury was the tightest kept secret of the year, especially during training camp and preseason. I think it was more serious then they wanted anybody to know about. The whole Kappernick saga (possibly signing him) was all about Joe’s back injury. He did not throw a ball in practice until the week leading up to the first game against Cincy.

**boller4president** · 01-12-2018, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by JonAB

Except Flaccos play ISNT the reason we had a shot at making the playoffs in Week 17. The defense and special teams were the reason we were in that spot, in spite of a poor offense for over half a season. Flacco and the offense also didn’t get it done in week 17, along with the defense.

Exactly. I don't even know why this needs to be explained.

Like I said the good teams with elite Qb's take care of their business early. The eagles, the Patriots, the Steelers, the Saints they didn't wait around until the last game.

The Titans and the Bills did. Why do you think that is? You get consistently good qb play you win games you don't and well you left with our situation where every year it's a tightrope because we aren't sure this is going to be one of the games Flacco decides to put it all together.

So yeah I'm not sure why some here think blaming the defense for the 4th down absolves Flacco or it changes what was a damn solid year for our defense. Actually if anything it's just frustrating because Flacco and this offense wasted a good special teams and defense. It reminds me of the Boller years.

**JonAB** · 01-12-2018, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by boller4president

Exactly. I don't even know why this needs to be explained.

Like I said the good teams with elite Qb's take care of their business early. The eagles, the Patriots, the Steelers, the Saints they didn't wait around until the last game.

The Titans and the Bills did. Why do you think that is? You get consistently good qb play you win games you don't and well you left with our situation where every year it's a tightrope because we aren't sure this is going to be one of the games Flacco decides to put it all together.

So yeah I'm not sure why some here think blaming the defense for the 4th down absolves Flacco or it changes what was a damn solid year for our defense. Actually if anything it's just frustrating because Flacco and this offense wasted a good special teams and defense. It reminds me of the Boller years.

Joe Flacco is a far superior QB to Kyle Boller but I will agree that it is similar in the way that we didn’t surround Boller with a decent set of weapons much like the current offense we’ve surrounded Flacco with. I’m not giving up on Flacco until he gets another shot at playing with decent players. If he sinks then, there’s no more excuses and his contract will no longer be tying him to the team.

**bt12483** · 01-12-2018, 02:02 AM

Originally Posted by Yogidriver

After the Ravens went up 27-24 the Defense held Cincy to 3 and out. All the offense had to do was hold the ball for 3 first downs and it was game over.

The offense that was down to two WRs? One of which was a practice squad guy making his debut?

Meanwhile the defense was still loaded with all the top dollar Free agents and draft picks?

You are why this comparison isn't quite fair right?

One side of the ball was bringing a knife to a gun fight.