Ravens Fan Commitment

**Goode05** · 01-03-2018, 03:43 PM

Biscotti really needs to read this

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**boller4president** · 01-03-2018, 04:26 PM

Honestly, after London my view on the team changed and I have sort of been going through the motions since. Never missed a game since the Boller years but missed two this year including the xmas game which I forgot they even played.

It will be hard to continue to watch the Ravens unless they make deep changes in the organization and the roster. Otherwise I can't really see me watching an entire 16 games. I know how the story ends been like groundhog day for three years now.

**Money227** · 01-03-2018, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by boller4president

Honestly, after London my view on the team changed and I have sort of been going through the motions since. Never missed a game since the Boller years but missed two this year including the xmas game which I forgot they even played.

It will be hard to continue to watch the Ravens unless they make deep changes in the organization and the roster. Otherwise I can't really see me watching an entire 16 games. I know how the story ends been like groundhog day for three years now.

When the wins feel like losses, you know you are ready for a change as a fan. I can't embrace "winning ugly" anymore. That's not a badge of honor I want to wear. We've cheered for a team with the same exact identity for close to 20 years now. I'm ready for a change in philosophy and I'm willing to go through initial losing seasons to see it.

**Yogidriver** · 01-03-2018, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Money227

When the wins feel like losses, you know you are ready for a change as a fan. I can't embrace "winning ugly" anymore. That's not a badge of honor I want to wear. We've cheered for a team with the same exact identity for close to 20 years now. I'm ready for a change in philosophy and I'm willing to go through initial losing seasons to see it.

I feel the same way. Most of the guys I watch the games with, say they can't take it anymore either.

**ravens56** · 01-03-2018, 07:57 PM

The NFL has gone downhill.

**Teavo** · 01-03-2018, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Raven1998

I use to love a good defensive game but instead I get to watch an inept first half offense only to be followed by a gassed 2nd half defense that can’t cover a no name tight end on 4th and 12.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this, but you just summed up my feelings about the 2017 Ravens perfectly!

**Teavo** · 01-03-2018, 10:09 PM

This forum is a great place but I have to say that this thread is one of the most interesting and insightful that I've read in a long time. Goode05 is right that Bisciotti should read it. So should the other 31 NFL owners.

The trends in NFL fandom are numerous and complex, but this thread has illuminated the issues more clearly than anything else I have ever read. Thanks to everyone who is contributing.

**usmccharles** · 01-03-2018, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by ravens56

The NFL has gone downhill.

Someone get this man a job, this is a quality take

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**Laxdad24** · 01-03-2018, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by usmccharles

Yea, I get to some the monetary part is important but I think looking at it from an investment stand point prolly isn't the best, but I don't know, I'm Not Invested.

Sadly I've never been to a Baltimore home Game and would love to. Been to Miami, kc, TN, SD x2. Was thinking about it this coming year but since they will be in LA and TN again going with those. I can't imagine sitting in 10 degree weather.

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I tell ya USMC..I attribute Ravens or any Football game live like I do NASCAR. When I was a kid thru young adult my dad , grandad and myself went to a ton of O’s and Colts games. We went to about every nascar race near us. Even traveled to attend a few races. But now I’ve taken my kids to see all of the above a few times and I always offer to take them again. They don’t want to. Truth is much like NASCAR I feel like you need to attend a “live” game / race at least once. See the sights. Smell the smells. Feel the crowd. That’s when it hits you...you’re either a die hard, ride or die fan or it just ain’t for you. I can honesty say hat I enjoy any and all sporting events from home or a bar waay more than being there live. At my house or the few bars I go to I know most of the people and like them. At the game you could have to sit next to or around That Guy! Loud mouth , drunk, cussing everyone. Just a general asshole. Foods better and cheaper at home. Beer is def cheaper. To be honest ...last 2 games I went to with guys from work...we never went in. Just tailgated the whole time. It was more fun. Just my 2 cents.

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**usmccharles** · 01-04-2018, 03:15 AM

Originally Posted by Laxdad24

I tell ya USMC..I attribute Ravens or any Football game live like I do NASCAR. When I was a kid thru young adult my dad , grandad and myself went to a ton of O’s and Colts games. We went to about every nascar race near us. Even traveled to attend a few races. But now I’ve taken my kids to see all of the above a few times and I always offer to take them again. They don’t want to. Truth is much like NASCAR I feel like you need to attend a “live” game / race at least once. See the sights. Smell the smells. Feel the crowd. That’s when it hits you...you’re either a die hard, ride or die fan or it just ain’t for you. I can honesty say hat I enjoy any and all sporting events from home or a bar waay more than being there live. At my house or the few bars I go to I know most of the people and like them. At the game you could have to sit next to or around That Guy! Loud mouth , drunk, cussing everyone. Just a general asshole. Foods better and cheaper at home. Beer is def cheaper. To be honest ...last 2 games I went to with guys from work...we never went in. Just tailgated the whole time. It was more fun. Just my 2 cents.

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I do like to get to a game when I can because of the fact I don't get the chance often. I mean, going to the TN game: hotel, air fair, game tickets, time off work, etc... it adds up quickly and while I really enjoy going with my buddies, the product at home is just too good. Besides, not a fan of spending 60$ for a six pack of beer.

**BlackSunday** · 01-04-2018, 03:26 AM

Getting back to the OP, it seems someone's already done the statistical heavy lifting on this:

Determinants of Secondary Market Sales Prices for National Football League Personal Seat Licenses and Season Ticket Rights

Are Ravens fans fickle? Dunno if they are particularly so, but NFL fans are in general. Among the many variables used in the regression analysis (R² = .75) of prices of secondary market PSL and Season Ticket Rights prices is the winning percentage in the three years before each sale. The money quote:

Short-term team winning percentage also has a substantial impact on the dependent variable. More specifically, if a team has a 0.563 winning percentage as opposed to a 0.500 winning percentage over the previous three seasons, secondary market sales prices are expected to increase by 28.32% all else equal [t-stat = 5.42]. This change in winning percentage is the difference of only three regular season wins over the course of three seasons. In other words, this equates to the difference of a 9-7 record each season versus an 8-8 record each season. This finding supports previous empirical work, including Noll’s (1974)nc seminal piece on pro football demand, which noted that consumer preferences for short-term team quality was the largest factor impacting attendance outside of stadium capacity.

The logistic regression includes a dummy variable for each market. Baltimore (used as the baseline by the article because of alphabetical order) seems to have demonstrated relatively high prices during the period covered (2005-2009). From the article:

In examining the team indicators, 16 of the 22 were significant at traditional levels against the baseline of Baltimore. Cleveland, Tennessee, and Chicago were the PSL franchises that were shown to be the most statistically similar to the baseline. Interestingly, two of those three franchises are relatively new to their respective cities. Baltimore and Tennessee are two of the most recent NFL franchises to relocate and Cleveland was awarded a franchise following the Browns move to Baltimore in 1996.

It's a daunting, but potentially rewarding, read. If you have any questions, feel free to ask, either here or via PM.

BS

**MyTurn** · 01-04-2018, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by BlackSunday

Getting back to the OP, it seems someone's already done the statistical heavy lifting on this:

It's a daunting, but potentially rewarding, read. If you have any questions, feel free to ask, either here or via PM.

BS

Thanks for this find. I have to admit I skimmed much of the supporting data in order to get to the summary accepting the summary conclusion without reading through the data. I think I may go back and read the supporting data later though. The Ravens current PSL prices look like they largely support his 3 year theory. The difference being that our PSL data support playoff appearances vs. record.

What I did not know was how other teams treat ownership of PSL's of season ticket rights (STR). The Patriots and Packers treat them as owned by the team and can't be transferred by the purchaser. If the purchaser wished to stop buying season tickets they revert back to the team to be sold again. The teams sell the rights to buy the tickets over and over again with no way for the buyer to recoup the costs.

Great conspiracy theorist material here.