One thing I never understood about fans critical of Joe Flacco.

**The Excellector** · 01-01-2018, 01:46 AM

If Joe Flacco is just an average-above average QB like you say, who can't elevate the talent around him, then why do you feel so content, year after year (Run-on sentence I know), just leaving him with scraps after the defense loads up? Based on your criticism, with what Flacco is given, the offense is doomed from the start. Yet, you don't think that it might help to get Flacco a high quality piece or two to bail him out since he's just average? Then, when the season comes and the offense struggles you all get mad at him and the offense as a whole, when you already acknowledged that he's not a QB who can elevate the talent around him and you already acknowledged that you're going to load up on the defense first and he's getting leftovers?

It just sounds like talking out of both sides of the mouth. If he's just an average QB, one would think you would want him to have even better talent to help with his inconsistencies. Yet, some of the same fans that criticize him so heavily, never seem interested in giving him anything more than leftovers they already know he won't elevate.

So, you have an average QB, stick with with average-below average pass catchers, feel that he doesn't elevate talent around him, yet still expect a top 15 offense?

**Goode05** · 01-01-2018, 01:48 AM

Who has done more with less?

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**Desert Raven** · 01-01-2018, 01:51 AM

Flacco makes more than Aaron Rodgers. That's not Flacco's fault, but people expect him to elevate his game based on his contract. He doesn't have a lot of help. Hardly any. He makes the big money, but doesn't seem like he's all the way invested. Aloof almost.

**The Excellector** · 01-01-2018, 01:53 AM

Personality wise, I don't see Joe acting any differently than he did before 2012. Contract-wise, I get it. However, at this point, he is far from the only QB making that type of money, but probably the only one who hasn't been built around.

**JimZipCode** · 01-01-2018, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

If Joe Flacco is just an average-above average QB like you say, who can't elevate the talent around him, then why do you feel so content, year after year (Run-on sentence I know), just leaving him with scraps after the defense loads up? Based on your criticism, with what Flacco is given, the offense is doomed from the start. Yet, you don't think that it might help to get Flacco a high quality piece or two to bail him out since he's just average?

Assumes facts not in evidence. Flacco can be not-elite, and the Ravens still need to add playmakers around the rest of the offense.

No one is happy we came out of the first few rounds of this past draft without a WR. But that doesn't mean Joe has played well the past few years.

**Ravenstatsman** · 01-01-2018, 02:07 AM

The one thing that really stood out to me this year was Flacco's complete presnap passivity at the line. CAN CAN a couple times a game is about it.

Contrast that to Roethlisberger's performance against us last game. There were points in the 2nd and 3rd quarter where the Ravens D was winning constantly, and getting pressure with blitzes. But Roethlisberger consistently ran up to the line with plenty of time and ran through enough dummy counts to snuff out the Ravens blitzes and call correct protection in the 4th quarter to win the game.

This is a skill that a QB can learn that is completely independent of his talent at WR. For instance even Andy Dalton can do this, the Bengals don't have a great offense but they designed a nice game plan that Dalton could handle at an up tempo that took advantage of holes in the D.

Flacco just hasn't developed this skill, it takes a lot of practice time with the o-line and WRs because they can't jump on the dummy counts, but a QB should drill it up with his teammates so they are solid with it. It has nothing to do with coaching, it is all on the QB. It really hampers the offense when CAN CAN is the only response.

EDIT: I just wanted to add a concrete response, I'm not going to keep going and don't feel like arguing, I am sad we are not playing next week like everyone else. so happy new years Ravens fans.

**WrongBaldy** · 01-01-2018, 02:38 AM

joe lost his mojo

**Caps&Ravens** · 01-01-2018, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by JimZipCode

Assumes facts not in evidence. Flacco can be not-elite, and the Ravens still need to add playmakers around the rest of the offense.

No one is happy we came out of the first few rounds of this past draft without a WR. But that doesn't mean Joe has played well the past few years.

Well said why the fwo cant understand this is beyond me. It’s so freaking simple yet we get 5 threads a week like this after a bad Flacco game.

**lowrider** · 01-01-2018, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by Desert Raven

Flacco makes more than Aaron Rodgers. That's not Flacco's fault, but people expect him to elevate his game based on his contract. He doesn't have a lot of help. Hardly any. He makes the big money, but doesn't seem like he's all the way invested. Aloof almost.

I think you’ve hit on the main source of angst for fans who don’t like Joe. It’s not that he can’t make the big plays when it counts (see 2nd half last night, and many many other big games in his career), or that he doesn’t have the skills. It’s about his personality and how he carries himself. He’s not the rah-rah type who gets in the face of other players like Brady or Rogers. He doesn’t play catch on the sidelines when the D is on the field (like Brady). And honestly people think he doesn’t give a shit.

The problem with all this is that fans have no idea what goes on inside Joe Flacco, or how he prepares, or whether he truly does not care. It’s all speculation. If you put speculation aside for moment and ask yourself the following? Who put us in a position to win that game with little over 2 minutes left, and who cost us that game with less than a minute left? Also, if you want Flacco gone, who is his replacement in 2018?

**GOTA** · 01-01-2018, 09:08 AM

Who was Romo’s replacement? Who replaces Alex Smith? Who replaces Kaepernick? Who replaced Hasselbeck or Peyton Mannin in Indy and Denver? Whenever you have a starting QB who has been with a team to a long time and near the end it’s always a question.

Pete Carroll sighed an expensive free agent QB, traded for a QB and drafted a QB. He kept the best of the 3 and didn’t sweat the lost resources on getting the other 2.

The Chiefs traded last years 3rd round pick and this years 1st round pick to move up and get a QB who sat on their bench all year. That’s 2 years of 1st round picks and a 3rd round pick that could have brought in the WR they need or the linebackers they don’t have for a a who didn’t contribute at all despite being healthy.

Then there is the Vikings. Their 1st round QB suffers the worst possible freak accident at practice and is out for 2 years. They have to trade some serious picks to get the china doll like Bradford who goes down week 2. Now they are starting the cheapest veteran QB in the NFL and could play in the Super Bowl at home.

Every team has this QB problem. The solution is making bold decisions and investing in fixes and not just throwing up your hands. The Ravens had so many misses before Flacco that the fans seem to think that will automatically happen again. It won’t necessarily work that way. Other teams are finding solutions and the Ravens eventually will too as long as they actually put the resources in.

**boller4president** · 01-01-2018, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Goode05

Who has done more with less?

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Cam Newton, Tyrod Taylor.

**Jsmoove** · 01-01-2018, 09:12 AM

I’m ready to move on from Joe really but we stuck with him and if Harbs is the HC still I wouldn’t give him shit to work with for a new QB so he can mess that up royally too.