Lombardi's piece on the coaches and scouts

[Jsmoove]

Harbs doesn't see eye to eye with any coach who is better than himself... which is a lot of them

I'm ready for him to gtfo

[WNCRavensFan]

Harbs doesn't see eye to eye with any coach who is better than himself... which is a lot of them

It's funny how people want to run Pagano out of Indy with the train wreck of an organization he has to work with. I hope he latches on somewhere (like... here?) as a DC for a good long while.

#ChuckStrong

[Ortizer]

Yep. Patriots are an obvious one. They lose top players and don't lose a beat. Brady for 4 games last year, Gronk, Edelman... Coaching is always so underrated in the NFL.

I'm gonna go on a small tangent, but it backs up how good coaching makes a difference. The Patriots have recently been kicking the ball short on kickoffs to force returns instead of just booming it out of the endzone. The result is they are stopping 27.6% of kicks at the 20 or shorter. Source: http://www.footballperspective.com/g...best-kickoffs/

Then, you have the Ravens kickoff strategy:

Ravens: Baltimore has the best stuff rate in the league: only 31.8% of their total kickoffs have been returned, but 20.4% of the total kickoffs have been stopped at the 20 or sooner. Perhaps this is a function of superstar kicker Justin Tucker: no one would be surprised if a huge air-time under Tucker’s kicks is giving the Baltimore defense enough time to run into place. So why are such a low percentage of Tucker’s kicks getting returned? I’m a bit surprised that John Harbaugh, former special teams coach, hasn’t used his team’s strength to his advantage more often.

Small sample size bias. When you only get 2 or 3 kickoffs a game...

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[Shas]

I'm not buying this logic entirely--that the Ravens coaches and scouts are failing to get on the same page, and therefore some players' talents are simply being misuse. I don't think that exactly explains the preponderance of more recent "busts" people are concerned about.

If I apply the logic then I should find a slew of players who busted here but then found success when they leave and another team finally uses them correctly.

I'm hard pressed to think of any. Timmy Jernigan wasn't exactly a bust, although he is a better fit and having more success with the Eagles. Terrance Brooks is a little better in his role with the Jets, not much, after the Eagles gave up on him.

Why hasn't Arthur Brown excelled elsewhere, where coaches could utilize his talent? Matt Elam didn't succeed elsewhere before ruining his life. Maybe Matt's problem was Matt, not coaching.

John Simon didn't bust here, he just didn't make the cut...and Houston gave up on him too before he found work in Indy.

I've heard stories about scouts being unhappy about how Correa is being used, but that doesn't mean they are right. If he fails here it doesn't prove them right unless he goes elsewhere and succeeds.

My view is that we're all looking for an explanation and that one thing that explains losing. The vogue thing right now is blaming Ozzie or coordinators, or some combination.

But actually that's always been the case as long as I've been a fan whenever we're losing. When we win it's, "In Ozzie We Trust." and when we lose we hold him to an impossible standard: never missing on a pick.

But I'd argue that Ozzie's track record and ability to align with the coaching staff has always been about the same.

It's popular to bitch about busts the last five years. But I can go back and find just as many picks in rounds 1-3 who don't cut it. For every Breshard Perriman there's a Travis Taylor. Jah Reid. Terrance Cody. Sergio Kindle. Tavares Gooden. Tom Zbikowski. Oniel Cousins. David Pittman. Dan Cody. Adam Terry. Kyle Boller. Devard Darling. Musa Smith. Patrick Johnson. Jay Graham. DeRon Jenkins. These are all players, going back to the very first draft and spanning three head coaches, who Ozzie selected in Rounds 1-3 who never amounted to anything.

When the team wins no one talks about these misses. When we lose, it becomes a natural part of the diagnosis.

And then there are examples of players who simply took forever to develop and were successful after the Ravens failed to resign them. Paul Kruger. Chris Chester. Dwan Edwards. Ed Dickson. Micheal Oher, perhaps.

Again, I don't think that was a matter of a player being misused here and being used correctly. These were all players who simply took longer to develop--and did finally develop with the Ravens before moving on. I'm hoping that can still be the case for a few names we're currently hating on--Perriman, Correa, Kafusi for instance.

[@SumthingObvious]

no... if harbs gets shit canned and is looking for another job with another team which head coach from another team would look at harbaugh as a replacement coordinator?

Ahhh word lol not a damn one


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[Jsmoove]

Ahhh word lol not a damn one


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LOL ya feel me now

[sawraven1]

I'm not buying this logic entirely--that the Ravens coaches and scouts are failing to get on the same page, and therefore some players' talents are simply being misuse. I don't think that exactly explains the preponderance of more recent "busts" people are concerned about.

If I apply the logic then I should find a slew of players who busted here but then found success when they leave and another team finally uses them correctly.

I'm hard pressed to think of any. Timmy Jernigan wasn't exactly a bust, although he is a better fit and having more success with the Eagles. Terrance Brooks is a little better in his role with the Jets, not much, after the Eagles gave up on him.

Why hasn't Arthur Brown excelled elsewhere, where coaches could utilize his talent? Matt Elam didn't succeed elsewhere before ruining his life. Maybe Matt's problem was Matt, not coaching.

John Simon didn't bust here, he just didn't make the cut...and Houston gave up on him too before he found work in Indy.

I've heard stories about scouts being unhappy about how Correa is being used, but that doesn't mean they are right. If he fails here it doesn't prove them right unless he goes elsewhere and succeeds.

My view is that we're all looking for an explanation and that one thing that explains losing. The vogue thing right now is blaming Ozzie or coordinators, or some combination.

But actually that's always been the case as long as I've been a fan whenever we're losing. When we win it's, "In Ozzie We Trust." and when we lose we hold him to an impossible standard: never missing on a pick.

But I'd argue that Ozzie's track record and ability to align with the coaching staff has always been about the same.

It's popular to bitch about busts the last five years. But I can go back and find just as many picks in rounds 1-3 who don't cut it. For every Breshard Perriman there's a Travis Taylor. Jah Reid. Terrance Cody. Sergio Kindle. Tavares Gooden. Tom Zbikowski. Oniel Cousins. David Pittman. Dan Cody. Adam Terry. Kyle Boller. Devard Darling. Musa Smith. Patrick Johnson. Jay Graham. DeRon Jenkins. These are all players, going back to the very first draft and spanning three head coaches, who Ozzie selected in Rounds 1-3 who never amounted to anything.

When the team wins no one talks about these misses. When we lose, it becomes a natural part of the diagnosis.

And then there are examples of players who simply took forever to develop and were successful after the Ravens failed to resign them. Paul Kruger. Chris Chester. Dwan Edwards. Ed Dickson. Micheal Oher, perhaps.

Again, I don't think that was a matter of a player being misused here and being used correctly. These were all players who simply took longer to develop--and did finally develop with the Ravens before moving on. I'm hoping that can still be the case for a few names we're currently hating on--Perriman, Correa, Kafusi for instance.

Dude,

You are so far off base its not funny.

Matt Elam was still a Raven when he got arrested. They declined his 5th year option

John Simon was not given up on by the Texans. His contract was up and Indy offered more money. The guy thrived in Texas. Time will tell with INdy.
But he has been better than any player we kept in place of him since and there is no argument to that.

Regarding the players you listed spaning 3 coaches. Why don't you add up how many pro bowl players there were during Billicks tenure vs Johnny Boys tenure.
I have and its not even close in comparison.

The Major disconnect between the Billick tenure and Harbaugh tenure is there were some busts back then. but the amount of pro bowler, hall of famers on the roster during Billicks tenure over shadowed those busts. We had players who were the best at their respective positions at multiple positions.

You do not have that now at any position on this team except Kicker.

[@SumthingObvious]

LOL ya feel me now

But honestly I️ think he would get picked up as a head coach man....





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[Justlovemybirds]

I'm not buying this logic entirely--that the Ravens coaches and scouts are failing to get on the same page, and therefore some players' talents are simply being misuse. I don't think that exactly explains the preponderance of more recent "busts" people are concerned about.

If I apply the logic then I should find a slew of players who busted here but then found success when they leave and another team finally uses them correctly.

I'm hard pressed to think of any. Timmy Jernigan wasn't exactly a bust, although he is a better fit and having more success with the Eagles. Terrance Brooks is a little better in his role with the Jets, not much, after the Eagles gave up on him.

Why hasn't Arthur Brown excelled elsewhere, where coaches could utilize his talent? Matt Elam didn't succeed elsewhere before ruining his life. Maybe Matt's problem was Matt, not coaching.

John Simon didn't bust here, he just didn't make the cut...and Houston gave up on him too before he found work in Indy.

I've heard stories about scouts being unhappy about how Correa is being used, but that doesn't mean they are right. If he fails here it doesn't prove them right unless he goes elsewhere and succeeds.

My view is that we're all looking for an explanation and that one thing that explains losing. The vogue thing right now is blaming Ozzie or coordinators, or some combination.

But actually that's always been the case as long as I've been a fan whenever we're losing. When we win it's, "In Ozzie We Trust." and when we lose we hold him to an impossible standard: never missing on a pick.

But I'd argue that Ozzie's track record and ability to align with the coaching staff has always been about the same.

It's popular to bitch about busts the last five years. But I can go back and find just as many picks in rounds 1-3 who don't cut it. For every Breshard Perriman there's a Travis Taylor. Jah Reid. Terrance Cody. Sergio Kindle. Tavares Gooden. Tom Zbikowski. Oniel Cousins. David Pittman. Dan Cody. Adam Terry. Kyle Boller. Devard Darling. Musa Smith. Patrick Johnson. Jay Graham. DeRon Jenkins. These are all players, going back to the very first draft and spanning three head coaches, who Ozzie selected in Rounds 1-3 who never amounted to anything.

When the team wins no one talks about these misses. When we lose, it becomes a natural part of the diagnosis.

And then there are examples of players who simply took forever to develop and were successful after the Ravens failed to resign them. Paul Kruger. Chris Chester. Dwan Edwards. Ed Dickson. Micheal Oher, perhaps.

Again, I don't think that was a matter of a player being misused here and being used correctly. These were all players who simply took longer to develop--and did finally develop with the Ravens before moving on. I'm hoping that can still be the case for a few names we're currently hating on--Perriman, Correa, Kafusi for instance.

Houston didn't give up on him, he was at the end of his contract and signed a 3/$13 with the Colts. He went from a rotational player one of the leagues top Defense to a starter with the Colts.

[Jsmoove]

But honestly I️ think he would get picked up as a head coach man....





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if the team wants a high draft pick they will choose him lol. I think harbs is a fraud dog, I don't think he can coach a team up from scratch, I don't see it. If he goes to stack team that has all the right pieces and a couple generals in the locker room he will do his Harbaugh magic. But if he has to build a team from scratch he's screwed.

[sawraven1]

You're on point with this bro. Do you think they're overthinking things? I remember decosta saying we used to have an advantage in the drafts later rounds but now they don't. I just feel like since then they're trying to outsmart other teams but they aren't the smartest. That's how we draft the correas over Derrick Henry. Just get the good fucking player!!!


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I think instead of focusing on if the guy is an actual football player liked the Derrick Henry vs Correa statement. Yes they are taking guys who appear to be safer, whether its a character thing or a performance thing I think they have lost sight of the direction they once had over all the other teams.

This year, Look at Ju Ju Schuster vs Bowser for example. Why wouldn't you take a chance using your 2nd round pick on a talent like JU JU when this team has a history of finding linebackers not even drafted????

Truly mind boggling when you think about it.

I think the rest of the league has caught up to their talent evaluating, and the Ravens have not improved is the big difference. Technology and social media has made players so easily accessible and the Ravens front office does not operate that way.

[Jsmoove]

I'm not buying this logic entirely--that the Ravens coaches and scouts are failing to get on the same page, and therefore some players' talents are simply being misuse. I don't think that exactly explains the preponderance of more recent "busts" people are concerned about.

If I apply the logic then I should find a slew of players who busted here but then found success when they leave and another team finally uses them correctly.

I'm hard pressed to think of any. Timmy Jernigan wasn't exactly a bust, although he is a better fit and having more success with the Eagles. Terrance Brooks is a little better in his role with the Jets, not much, after the Eagles gave up on him.

Why hasn't Arthur Brown excelled elsewhere, where coaches could utilize his talent? Matt Elam didn't succeed elsewhere before ruining his life. Maybe Matt's problem was Matt, not coaching.

John Simon didn't bust here, he just didn't make the cut...and Houston gave up on him too before he found work in Indy.

I've heard stories about scouts being unhappy about how Correa is being used, but that doesn't mean they are right. If he fails here it doesn't prove them right unless he goes elsewhere and succeeds.

My view is that we're all looking for an explanation and that one thing that explains losing. The vogue thing right now is blaming Ozzie or coordinators, or some combination.

But actually that's always been the case as long as I've been a fan whenever we're losing. When we win it's, "In Ozzie We Trust." and when we lose we hold him to an impossible standard: never missing on a pick.

But I'd argue that Ozzie's track record and ability to align with the coaching staff has always been about the same.

It's popular to bitch about busts the last five years. But I can go back and find just as many picks in rounds 1-3 who don't cut it. For every Breshard Perriman there's a Travis Taylor. Jah Reid. Terrance Cody. Sergio Kindle. Tavares Gooden. Tom Zbikowski. Oniel Cousins. David Pittman. Dan Cody. Adam Terry. Kyle Boller. Devard Darling. Musa Smith. Patrick Johnson. Jay Graham. DeRon Jenkins. These are all players, going back to the very first draft and spanning three head coaches, who Ozzie selected in Rounds 1-3 who never amounted to anything.

When the team wins no one talks about these misses. When we lose, it becomes a natural part of the diagnosis.

And then there are examples of players who simply took forever to develop and were successful after the Ravens failed to resign them. Paul Kruger. Chris Chester. Dwan Edwards. Ed Dickson. Micheal Oher, perhaps.

Again, I don't think that was a matter of a player being misused here and being used correctly. These were all players who simply took longer to develop--and did finally develop with the Ravens before moving on. I'm hoping that can still be the case for a few names we're currently hating on--Perriman, Correa, Kafusi for instance.

Shas my man you always bring it no doubt and I would have leaned towards this type of thinking 4 seasons ago, but not anymore my man. not any more. This team has some serious issues and not issues that can be ironed out but change of coordinator and better drafting, these issues are ingrained in the culture of team via the HC and FO and there needs to be change from philosophical to coaching to personnel if the Ravens want to return to winning and winning big.