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  1. #1

    The 2017 Steelers are a perfect example of offensive talent keeping the QB afloat.

    Is this thread aimed at those saying Joe is the problem? Sort of, but I'm not enamored with the 2017 Joe either. I don't put myself in the apologist column for any man.

    If you are an 'eye-test' guy as I am, I've still been more upbeat about Flacco's movement and foot speed far more than Ben's. Plus I still see the throws from Joe, that not every NFL QB can make. As far as Joe's legs, the run on the Alonso hit showed he has the same underrated speed he has always had.

    Back to Ben and the Steelers. It's clear to me that his career is ending. He no longer extends plays (yet is getting superb OL support), I've yet to see a fake pump this season, can't shed tacklers like he is used to, and the deep balls and accuracy are all over the place. Balls frequently sail and he has to live in the pocket, which is not his game. He is weakening in many ways.

    Yet, he is 6-2 at the top of a weak division with a good amount of passing yards piled up. Why, because he has way above average talent supporting him. Maybe even an OC who knows what he is doing. Tomlin on the other hand, to me is not a Steeler strength, but that's fodder for a Steelers board. Anyway, that Steelers Offense is balling, all except Ben. So it's not just the QB thats making a difference.

    My point being, if Joe had what Ben has, there wouldn't be any discussion about how he is the problem or dialogue discussing his being replaced.

    If Ben was balling out too, that indeed would be a SB bound team. At easily 40+ per game. But it's (Ben) probably going to bite them in an important game. In the mean time, Ben will get a free pass so long as the rest of that O squad keep it up. And I'm not saying all Steeler observers are oblivious, they aren't and do see the cracks as well.
    Last edited by alienstar; 11-03-2017 at 12:51 PM.





  2. #2

    Re: The 2017 Steelers are a perfect example of offensive talent keeping the QB afloat.

    Quote Originally Posted by MontibelloValhalla View Post
    Big Ben can read defenses, manipulate the pocket, he does not collapse at the slightest hint of pressure, and he is accurate on his deep ball.

    Law Firm of McCauley, Dickey and McMillan.
    Burn it down





  3. #3

    Re: The 2017 Steelers are a perfect example of offensive talent keeping the QB afloat.

    Quote Originally Posted by HbgPARavenfan View Post
    Thank you, yes it is lame, but I'll bite.

    Responding to MontibelloValhalla:

    Read defenses - OK, and your point is? I suppose he can, but it's not helping his personal performance despite the rest of the offensive team playing extremely well.

    Manipulate pocket - I've no clue. School me. Sounds like business course terminology.

    Not collapse in pressure - see 2017 BR with very good line support. He's easily brought down when they get to him. No longer escapes...his former forte. If you want to say throwing INTs and moon balls isn't collapsing, then maybe your right.

    Accuracy on deep balls - see 2017 BR, and a slew of receivers coming back, adjusting, and getting balls that are in the same zipcode. A few Steeler forums are bashing Ben on this very topic. Lost his deep ball accuracy is what they claim. I've seen it too. And not just the deep ball.
    Last edited by alienstar; 11-03-2017 at 01:27 PM.





  4. #4
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    The 2017 Steelers are a perfect example of offensive talent keeping the QB afloat.

    Quote Originally Posted by MontibelloValhalla View Post
    Big Ben can read defenses, manipulate the pocket, he does not collapse at the slightest hint of pressure, and he is accurate on his deep ball.

    Law Firm of McCauley, Dickey and McMillan.
    Go post more stories from last week passing it for this weeks news like you're Sherlock Fen Holmes. It was smart to delete the thread


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





  5. #5
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    Re: The 2017 Steelers are a perfect example of offensive talent keeping the QB afloat.

    Quote Originally Posted by alienstar View Post
    Is this thread aimed at those saying Joe is the problem? Sort of, but I'm not enamored with the 2017 Joe either. I don't put myself in the apologist column for any man.

    If you are an 'eye-test' guy as I am, I've still been more upbeat about Flacco's movement and foot speed far more than Ben's. Plus I still see the throws from Joe, that not every NFL QB can make. As far as Joe's legs, the run on the Alonso hit showed he has the same underrated speed he has always had.

    Back to Ben and the Steelers. It's clear to me that his career is ending. He no longer extends plays (yet is getting superb OL support), I've yet to see a fake pump this season, can't shed tacklers like he is used to, and the deep balls and accuracy are all over the place. Balls frequently sail and he has to live in the pocket, which is not his game. He is weakening in many ways.

    Yet, he is 6-2 at the top of a weak division with a good amount of passing yards piled up. Why, because he has way above average talent supporting him. Maybe even an OC who knows what he is doing. Tomlin on the other hand, to me is not a Steeler strength, but that's fodder for a Steelers board. Anyway, that Steelers Offense is balling, all except Ben. So it's not just the QB thats making a difference.

    My point being, if Joe had what Ben has, there wouldn't be any discussion about how he is the problem or dialogue discussing his being replaced.

    If Ben was balling out too, that indeed would be a SB bound team. At easily 40+ per game. But it's (Ben) probably going to bite them in an important game. In the mean time, Ben will get a free pass so long as the rest of that O squad keep it up. And I'm not saying all Steeler observers are oblivious, they aren't and do see the cracks as well.
    I agree that ben is being propped up by the guys around him, I think there’s no doubt. I also think there’s no doubt that the Ravens o support is among worst in the league, particularly with injuries.

    Regardless it’s extremely hard to build an offense like the Steelers. They have the best WR, the best RB and one of the best O-lines in football, it’s an insane amount of riches they have. I’m very jealous but it’s more of a symptom of probably having the best and most underrated GM in football. Their defense is pretty god damn good as well. Pains me to say but the Steelers look very good despite their fading QB. We on the other hand are not.





  6. #6

    Re: The 2017 Steelers are a perfect example of offensive talent keeping the QB afloat.

    Quote Originally Posted by JonAB View Post
    I agree that ben is being propped up by the guys around him, I think there’s no doubt. I also think there’s no doubt that the Ravens o support is among worst in the league, particularly with injuries.

    Regardless it’s extremely hard to build an offense like the Steelers. They have the best WR, the best RB and one of the best O-lines in football, it’s an insane amount of riches they have. I’m very jealous but it’s more of a symptom of probably having the best and most underrated GM in football. Their defense is pretty god damn good as well. Pains me to say but the Steelers look very good despite their fading QB. We on the other hand are not.
    No problem with that statement.





  7. #7

    Re: The 2017 Steelers are a perfect example of offensive talent keeping the QB afloat.

    It's really pretty shocking. Despite having a top-5 OL in front of him and the best RB and WR respectively around him, his QB rating is only 10 points higher than Joe's (82.7 vs 72.3). He's barely getting touched too with top 5 lowest sack/pressure rates.

    I don't really know what to extrapolate from the data but Roethlisberger seems to have completely fallen off a cliff. As an aside, the Steelers don't have a SINGLE offensive player on IR according to Pro Football Reference. They only have 2 guys total on IR compared to the Ravens' 12 (was 13 before Canady was activated today.)





  8. #8

    Re: The 2017 Steelers are a perfect example of offensive talent keeping the QB afloat.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    It's really pretty shocking. Despite having a top-5 OL in front of him and the best RB and WR respectively around him, his QB rating is only 10 points higher than Joe's (82.7 vs 72.3). He's barely getting touched too with top 5 lowest sack/pressure rates.

    I don't really know what to extrapolate from the data but Roethlisberger seems to have completely fallen off a cliff. As an aside, the Steelers don't have a SINGLE offensive player on IR according to Pro Football Reference. They only have 2 guys total on IR compared to the Ravens' 12 (was 13 before Canady was activated today.)
    1. Yeah, but its passer rating, so take it with a grain of salt.

    2. If you look at his home/road splits over like the last 2-3 years, its shocking how bad of a QB he is on the road.





  9. #9
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    Re: The 2017 Steelers are a perfect example of offensive talent keeping the QB afloat.

    Anyone that has watched the 2017 steelers knows they aren't winning because of the QB.

    They are winning because the defense is holding teams below 20 points and bell and brown are carrying the team. With some help from juju.

    Ben has merely been along for the ride.





  10. #10
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    Re: The 2017 Steelers are a perfect example of offensive talent keeping the QB afloat.

    I wonder if Ben isn't just Physically broken at this point


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





  11. #11
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    Re: The 2017 Steelers are a perfect example of offensive talent keeping the QB afloat.

    Quote Originally Posted by bravens23 View Post
    1. Yeah, but its passer rating, so take it with a grain of salt.

    2. If you look at his home/road splits over like the last 2-3 years, its shocking how bad of a QB he is on the road.
    Shocking. Not really Road wins in the NFL are tough to come by for most QBs. Overall he is 58 and 39 in the regular season and 4-1 this year Shocking to me would be 39 and 58.





  12. #12
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    Re: The 2017 Steelers are a perfect example of offensive talent keeping the QB afloat.

    Quote Originally Posted by alienstar View Post
    Is this thread aimed at those saying Joe is the problem? Sort of, but I'm not enamored with the 2017 Joe either. I don't put myself in the apologist column for any man.

    If you are an 'eye-test' guy as I am, I've still been more upbeat about Flacco's movement and foot speed far more than Ben's. Plus I still see the throws from Joe, that not every NFL QB can make. As far as Joe's legs, the run on the Alonso hit showed he has the same underrated speed he has always had.

    Back to Ben and the Steelers. It's clear to me that his career is ending. He no longer extends plays (yet is getting superb OL support), I've yet to see a fake pump this season, can't shed tacklers like he is used to, and the deep balls and accuracy are all over the place. Balls frequently sail and he has to live in the pocket, which is not his game. He is weakening in many ways.

    Yet, he is 6-2 at the top of a weak division with a good amount of passing yards piled up. Why, because he has way above average talent supporting him. Maybe even an OC who knows what he is doing. Tomlin on the other hand, to me is not a Steeler strength, but that's fodder for a Steelers board. Anyway, that Steelers Offense is balling, all except Ben. So it's not just the QB thats making a difference.

    My point being, if Joe had what Ben has, there wouldn't be any discussion about how he is the problem or dialogue discussing his being replaced.

    If Ben was balling out too, that indeed would be a SB bound team. At easily 40+ per game. But it's (Ben) probably going to bite them in an important game. In the mean time, Ben will get a free pass so long as the rest of that O squad keep it up. And I'm not saying all Steeler observers are oblivious, they aren't and do see the cracks as well.
    I’ve said all year that the Steeler offense has been off in spite of the 6-2 record and a lot of that has to do with Ben He does not look like the Ben of old to me Could this be the beginning of his decline? Maybe. Your points regarding the pump fakes, and shedding tacklers is valid; I just don’t see him doing much of that so far yet this season.





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