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  1. #49

    Re: An out of the box trade

    Quote Originally Posted by CharmCityCrab View Post
    1. To be completely honest, I think at that time, Incognito was one of many people who talked that way in the NFL, and I just assume its par for the course. I think the general public overblows the situation, mostly because these are the kinds of things they're not really exposed to.

    2. I wouldn't have a problem with it, mostly because the NFL and their players clearly don't have a problem with it. Been a great player and a great teammate in the two years since, and Martin is out of the league.

    So I think its better if I take my cue based on what NFL teams and players value. I'm not in the business of playing the moral high ground card when it comes to a sport that's designed on inflicting large amounts of bodily harm to other human beings.





  2. #50
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    Re: An out of the box trade

    Quote Originally Posted by CharmCityCrab View Post
    So, they won't sign a peaceful political protester like Kaepernick for free (i.e. In the sense of not having to give up players), but they will give up players for a bully like Incognito? Incognito is a piece of trash. I don't really want him on my team. If they were to take the attitude of "Just win baby" and sign all the best players, and Incognito happened to be one of them, and it were pared with Kaepernick, I'd swallow it, but if they are going to ignore the faults someone like Incognito who destroyed a guy's life while singling out a guy as unsignable who just didn't stand for a song in protest of police brutality and racism, screw 'em. I'll be a fan, but not the kind of fan who spends a dime on a hat or a ticket or anything that benefits the business side of the team if they do the combination of not signing Kaepernick and trading for Incongito.

    Frankly, if there is ever a guy who I wouldn't sign based on something he's done in the past, it's Incognito. They've already drawn one line in the sand over something stupid with Kaepernick, so if they let Ignito's past go, then it shows me their values are way out of step with mine. In a way, that's fallout form the Kaepernick situation- they've already shown they won't do what's best for the team because of political considerations, so any move is now to me subject to an analysis of the political considerations. That's where they've positioned themselves.
    We have players on our roster right now who have done worse things than Incognito did. As much as he is my favourite Raven and has been since 2010, T Sizzle through bleach over his mrs ffs.

    Incognito was a bully no doubt, but I seen guys like him in my army days, and they are usually good at their jobs and people you'd wanna go to war with. I'm not convinced he was a full blown racist either. His use of racial slurs were unacceptable. But I guarantee it happens in a lot of NFL rosters between white and black players in a joking way. That's what I experienced in the military myself, and no one made a big deal out of it because there weren't any cry baby regressive liberals in ear shot





  3. #51

    Re: An out of the box trade

    Quote Originally Posted by CharmCityCrab View Post
    So, they won't sign a peaceful political protester like Kaepernick for free (i.e. In the sense of not having to give up players), but they will give up players for a bully like Incognito? Incognito is a piece of trash. I don't really want him on my team. If they were to take the attitude of "Just win baby" and sign all the best players, and Incognito happened to be one of them, and it were pared with Kaepernick, I'd swallow it, but if they are going to ignore the faults someone like Incognito who destroyed a guy's life while singling out a guy as unsignable who just didn't stand for a song in protest of police brutality and racism, screw 'em. I'll be a fan, but not the kind of fan who spends a dime on a hat or a ticket or anything that benefits the business side of the team if they do the combination of not signing Kaepernick and trading for Incongito.

    Frankly, if there is ever a guy who I wouldn't sign based on something he's done in the past, it's Incognito. They've already drawn one line in the sand over something stupid with Kaepernick, so if they let Ignito's past go, then it shows me their values are way out of step with mine. In a way, that's fallout form the Kaepernick situation- they've already shown they won't do what's best for the team because of political considerations, so any move is now to me subject to an analysis of the political considerations. That's where they've positioned themselves.
    Have you played any form of organized sports in your entire life? To act like things like this aren't common in any level of organized sports is pretty foolish. When I played football and basketball, you talk shit, mess with people, etc. I will admit taking it that far with a teammate is odd to me, but The fact he couldn't handle someone saying some mean words speak to his level of sensitivity in a sport that's about toughness so maybe he doesn't belong in that sport. Do I advocate for that kind of treatment? No. But I care more about the guy not being able to handle some words and the fact that it 'ruined' his life? please, gtfo. Go through Marine boot camp and try whining about someone hurting your feelings because of words. If 17 year old kids going through boot camp can take an ear fool from their drill instructors I think a grown ass man should be able to handle it For fucks sake.





  4. #52
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    Re: An out of the box trade

    Quote Originally Posted by usmccharles View Post
    Have you played any form of organized sports in your entire life? To act like things like this aren't common in any level of organized sports is pretty foolish. When I played football and basketball, you talk shit, mess with people, etc. I will admit taking it that far with a teammate is odd to me, but The fact he couldn't handle someone saying some mean words speak to his level of sensitivity in a sport that's about toughness so maybe he doesn't belong in that sport. Do I advocate for that kind of treatment? No. But I care more about the guy not being able to handle some words and the fact that it 'ruined' his life? please, gtfo. Go through Marine boot camp and try whining about someone hurting your feelings because of words. If 17 year old kids going through boot camp can take an ear fool from their drill instructors I think a grown ass man should be able to handle it For fucks sake.
    A grown ass man making millions. I remember making £1200 a month in my boot camp, (that's about what $1900 dollars these days?) And got called a whole bunch of things worse than that.

    Martin was never made for the NFL which was a shame because he had the talent and the feet to become a good LT imo.





  5. #53

    Re: An out of the box trade

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    A grown ass man making millions. I remember making £1200 a month in my boot camp, (that's about what $1900 dollars these days?) And got called a whole bunch of things worse than that.

    Martin was never made for the NFL which was a shame because he had the talent and the feet to become a good LT imo.
    Yep. I believe I was making around 1700 in boot camp. Blows my mind what people are bothered by today. Not saying everyone needs to be Rambo, just stop acting like your made of eggshells.

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  6. #54
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    Re: An out of the box trade

    Quote Originally Posted by bravens23 View Post
    Right, which is why I don't see us trading. If we're trading these guys for picks, then we're essentially accomplishing nothing. Urban MIGHT fetch you like a 4th or 5th rounder, which seems like a waste for a guy who can start for you for a couple of years.

    The rest of those guys, outside of Pierce, probably aren't worth more than a 6th or 7th, and most of them aren't worth literally any picks. I think this is just another example of us overvaluing our own players. I can tell you right now... I think 32 NFL teams have a Willie Henry, Carl Davis, ZaDarius Smith level player on their roster right now. I don't think these guys are special.

    I think if you're trading those guys, you're swapping depth for depth. You're trading one of these guys for a 6th or 7th offensive lineman who MAYBE develops into something better or manages to not get killed in spot starts. You're not getting 3rd or 4th round picks for these guys. You're getting late round picks that very, very, very rarely amount to anything.

    That's why the only two guys I see worth trading are Urban and Pierce. Urban I don't see the point, because I think he's important to your defense this year and in the short term, and I don't think you'd get better than a below-average starter on the Oline for him.

    Pierce is the only chip of any value. You could probably get a decent player and or a decent draft pick for him.

    Linebacker forget about it. There's nothing.
    Urban is UFA after this year.

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  7. #55

    Re: An out of the box trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Ortizer View Post
    Urban is UFA after this year.

    Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
    And? He has virtually no game tape, outside of what we've seen in the preseason, that would make him that appealing to another team. And he's not in a similar to position to Jernigan, who had put several years of solid game tape together and was destined for a huge payday. Even with a really good season, I'm not even sure if Urban would fetch a huge contract on the open market.





  8. #56
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    Re: An out of the box trade

    Quote Originally Posted by bravens23 View Post
    And? He has virtually no game tape, outside of what we've seen in the preseason, that would make him that appealing to another team. And he's not in a similar to position to Jernigan, who had put several years of solid game tape together and was destined for a huge payday. Even with a really good season, I'm not even sure if Urban would fetch a huge contract on the open market.
    I think you're way off on that. Rick Wagner just became one of the highest apaod RTs in NFL history after one good season. If Urban has a 8+ sack season and is a dominant 5tech, teams are going to over pay the fuck out of him with his size etc. Clearly he is not JJ Watt, but there will be teams who will invision that type of role for him if he breaks out.





  9. #57
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    Re: An out of the box trade

    Urban's breaking out could be similar to McPhee who priced himself out of here. He was always a solid player, but that 2014 season got him paid. Prior ot that he was useful, but wasn't a really strong pass rusher like he became in 2014.
    "Cause if you ain’t pissed off for greatness, that just means you’re okay with being mediocre, and ain’t no man in here okay with just basic.”
    - Ray Lewis

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  10. #58

    Re: An out of the box trade

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    I think you're way off on that. Rick Wagner just became one of the highest apaod RTs in NFL history after one good season. If Urban has a 8+ sack season and is a dominant 5tech, teams are going to over pay the fuck out of him with his size etc. Clearly he is not JJ Watt, but there will be teams who will invision that type of role for him if he breaks out.
    1. Rick Wagner had about 3 really good seasons, and that's out of a possible 4. The only season where he was even arguably an average to below average RT was in 2014, when he was recovering from prior year surgery. He was a top 10 RT in his rookie year, and was very good in 2015 as well. To say that 2016 was his only good season just isn't accurate.

    2. I don't see any scenario where Urban is getting 8+ sacks, based on how this defense operates. That would probably put him at #1 or #2 on the entire team in sacks, and I don't think our defensive schemes are built for a 5-tech DE to get 8+ sacks unless they are literally a JJ Watt level player, which he is not.

    2.





  11. #59

    Re: An out of the box trade

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorthRaven View Post
    Urban's breaking out could be similar to McPhee who priced himself out of here. He was always a solid player, but that 2014 season got him paid. Prior ot that he was useful, but wasn't a really strong pass rusher like he became in 2014.
    Different position and responsibilities, of course.





  12. #60
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    Re: An out of the box trade

    Quote Originally Posted by bravens23 View Post
    Different position and responsibilities, of course.
    Doesn't change the fact that high level play in a contract year led to pricing out of Baltimore.

    Point being that some teams will pay for 1 year of high production.

    Paul Kruger is the same. You could aruge his 2011 season showed his pass rushing skills, but that 2012 season + 4.5 sacks in the playoffs got him paid.
    "Cause if you ain’t pissed off for greatness, that just means you’re okay with being mediocre, and ain’t no man in here okay with just basic.”
    - Ray Lewis

    https://www.baltimoreravens.com/author/cole-jackson

    Twitter: @ColeJacksonFB





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