CTE in the NFL

**BigPlayReceiver** · 07-25-2017, 11:22 AM

Not sure if it needs its own thread, but Lord-a-mussy...

110 NFL Brains

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...imes&smtyp=cur

"Dr. Ann McKee, a neuropathologist, has examined the brains of 202 deceased football players. A broad survey of her findings was published on Tuesday in The Journal of the American Medical Association. Of the 202 players, 111 of them played in the N.F.L. — and 110 of those were found to have chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or C.T.E., the degenerative disease believed to be caused by repeated blows to the head."

**Goode05** · 07-25-2017, 11:25 AM

Wow

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**QuothDaRaven** · 07-25-2017, 11:31 AM

I guess it isn't surprising that football players get CTE. What's surprising is 99% of NFL players do. So basically every NFL player will get some degree of a preventable neuro-degenerative condition is the implication.

I'm curious to know what positions those players played, what time frame, was it after helmet redesigns or changes to the game rules?

I need to read the article, but if this is true, the implications (legal and ethical) for the future of the NFL are staggering.

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**trailhiker85** · 07-25-2017, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by QuothDaRaven

I need to read the article, but if this is true, the implications (legal and ethical) for the future of the NFL are staggering.

Yes, one really has to wonder how the growing body of CTE evidence will affect the NFL going forward. I mean, 110 players out of 111? No one can use the argument that only a small fraction of players develop CTE anymore. Really, you also have to wonder how many players will digest the latest findings and consider calling it quits. I understand the lure of big bucks, but I can see vets who have already made significant cash choosing to retire early. And they'd probably be making the right choice.

**QuothDaRaven** · 07-25-2017, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by trailhiker85

Yes, one really has to wonder how the growing body of CTE evidence will affect the NFL going forward. And you also have to wonder how many players will consider calling it quits. I understand the lure of big bucks, but I can see vets who have already made significant cash choosing to retire early. And they'd probably be making the right choice.

That's another question you raise. How "early" can you retire and be safe? How many years before it happens? Does playing college football at a division 1 level for years already start the process and the NFL just accelerates it?

I think players will always be willing to take the risk. The monetary lure is just too great. The question is are we as a society, and the team physicians, going to allow it? We don't perceive football as a combat sport, but maybe that's what may need to happen.

Maybe Suggs' gladiator helmet was closer to the truth than he realized...

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**trailhiker85** · 07-25-2017, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by QuothDaRaven

That's another question you raise. How "early" can you retire and be safe? How many years before it happens? Does playing college football at a division 1 level for years already start the process and the NFL just accelerates it?

Great point. If I were a player I'd certainly be pondering this very question: By continuing my career another year or two or three or four, how much risk am I adding in addition to what I've done up until now? Or is it already too late?

Perhaps further research will shed more light on this. I think it's a big question.

**Gato_Papi** · 07-25-2017, 11:46 AM

More importantly, with the recent development of PET-scan live-imaging of the tau protein (the protein for brain degeneration)...physicians can now determine brain trauma in live patients.

One has to imagine, when will teams/healthcare be required to check for tau/brain trauma in contract physicals...??

THAT would be the game-changer for the NFL.

**Jsmoove** · 07-25-2017, 11:50 AM

wow just wow.

**moose10101** · 07-25-2017, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by QuothDaRaven

I guess it isn't surprising that football players get CTE. What's surprising is 99% of NFL players do.

Actually, the study doesn't prove that. She was not working with a random sample, but with donated brains (mostly donated by concerned families, according to one article). That may (or may not) have affected the outcome.

But the actual % for the entire population is still likely to be incredibly high.

**HbgPARavenfan** · 07-25-2017, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by QuothDaRaven

I guess it isn't surprising that football players get CTE. What's surprising is 99% of NFL players do. So basically every NFL player will get some degree of a preventable neuro-degenerative condition is the implication.

I'm curious to know what positions those players played, what time frame, was it after helmet redesigns or changes to the game rules?

I need to read the article, but if this is true, the implications (legal and ethical) for the future of the NFL are staggering.

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Its not shocking to me at all. Then again, I'm not shocked that boxers are at risk either. I do agree that the legal implications could be staggering.

I'm not sure that they should be though. I know it kind of sounds cruel. But honestly, if your playing a collision sport or fighting sport, you know what you're signing up for.

I feel bad for the individuals who are suffering, but I cant help but think some of this is a money grab. You have to be really dense not to realize your putting your health at risk

**QuothDaRaven** · 07-25-2017, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by moose10101

Actually, the study doesn't prove that. She was working with donated brains, not a random sample. That may (or may not) have affected the outcome.

But the actual % for the entire population is still likely to be incredibly high.

Good point.

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**JimZipCode** · 07-25-2017, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by trailhiker85

I mean, 110 players out of 111? No one can use the argument that only a small fraction of players develop CTE anymore.

Remember that the sample is somewhat self-selected. The people whose families submitted their brains, were probably people who were symptomatic. Maybe extremely symptomatic. So likely the true incidence is not really 99.099%.

But y'know, even if it's half that rate, a third of that rate. That's catastrophic.

Originally Posted by trailhiker85

Yes, one really has to wonder how the growing body of CTE evidence will affect the NFL going forward.

The problem is not really the NFL. The football "industry" benefits from keeping the focus on the NFL, because NFL players are well-compensated adults. The real skeleton in the closet is college and esp high school players. The only study I've read about showed CTE in a dead high school player.

Suppose that is replicated. Suppose it is discovered that there is a high prevalence of CTE in high school football players. Think about what that means. NFL players can consent to the risk: they are adults. Even college players are adults. But high school football players are children. They can't consent to the risk. States could make high school football go away. Like, gone completely. High school football could evaporate.

What is the fate of college football, and then the NFL, if there is no base population of high school football players?