This Mob Mentality against Law Enforcement is getting on my nerves.

**usmccharles** · 07-14-2017, 03:26 AM

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorthRaven

It drives me up the wall when I see people commenting in the media, particularly social media about anything in regards to law enforcement (be it the border, policing, corrections, etc.) when they don't have a god damn clue what it's like to wear the badge and do the job.

Now, I know what you might be thinking - free speech, everyone's entitled to their opinion, etc. That may be true and I'm not attempting to say someone can't have an opinion, but seriously they do it with so much self-righteousness and quite frankly don't have a god damn clue what they're talking about. You know why they compare opinions to assholes - everyone has one and sometimes they're shitty. Couldn't be more true on this topic.
.

Speaking on how people don't know what it is like to wear a badge: Whenever BLM was a big discussion daily, Phoenix Police Department invited Jarret Maupin (a vocal activist in recent protest against police officers shooting unarmed civilians) to go through some training situations. Maupin goes through and comes out with a different outlook on how important compliance is, this really speaks volumes to his character that he was willing to put himself through this and be honest about how little he knew about how situations presents its self for police officers. I cant use youtube at work, so I'm going to try and write in the link, if it doesn't work someone help me out and add it in, I think it's a good watch for discussion sake. https://youtu.be/yfi3Ndh3n-g

To your next point: I think a lot of people mistake 'free speech' with their "free speech deserving respect." If you are willing to state an opinion, be prepared to defend your opinion, sadly I think a lot of people see this as disrespect rather than a form of debate/conversation/discussion.

I am not religious by any means, nor very political, but I do enjoy discussing each topic and hearing other's opinions because that is how I become more informed.

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorthRaven

Which is also the reason I don't really comment much on the flip side of this debate. I'm a middle class white dude. I'm not going to even pretend to understand how a black man experiences an interaction with a member of law enforcement.

I guess what I'm saying is that there's a lot of people that comment on these situations that just don't get it, IMHO.

How can I say how a black man (or other minority - or really anyone for that matter) should experience an interaction with the police? How can I say how a law enforcement officer (regardless of color) should experience an interaction in an area that has been identified as being high risk?

I Just can't without making way too many assumptions that I'm probably wrong about.

I completely agree, I am a middle class white guy that doesn't experience any of the tribulations someone of a minority race might, but I cant leave myself completely out of it. I just try to never think of it as a right or wrong aspect, rather than what can I learn more about the situation from someone of a minority race so when I speak about it, I have the other sides opinion on certain things as well not trying to be ignorant. I like to think of myself as being very objective, but in today's society if your opinion is against the popular opinion on situations like this, you are quick to be called racist, which in-turn makes a lot of people too afraid to give their honest opinion.

I think most people want the same thing in this country, we just have to figure out how to get there.......together.

**Jsmoove** · 07-14-2017, 08:06 AM

I love you guys man

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**GreatWhiteNorthRaven** · 07-14-2017, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by usmccharles

Speaking on how people don't know what it is like to wear a badge: Whenever BLM was a big discussion daily, Phoenix Police Department invited Jarret Maupin (a vocal activist in recent protest against police officers shooting unarmed civilians) to go through some training situations. Maupin goes through and comes out with a different outlook on how important compliance is, this really speaks volumes to his character that he was willing to put himself through this and be honest about how little he knew about how situations presents its self for police officers. I cant use youtube at work, so I'm going to try and write in the link, if it doesn't work someone help me out and add it in, I think it's a good watch for discussion sake. https://youtu.be/yfi3Ndh3n-g

To your next point: I think a lot of people mistake 'free speech' with their "free speech deserving respect." If you are willing to state an opinion, be prepared to defend your opinion, sadly I think a lot of people see this as disrespect rather than a form of debate/conversation/discussion.

I am not religious by any means, nor very political, but I do enjoy discussing each topic and hearing other's opinions because that is how I become more informed.

I completely agree, I am a middle class white guy that doesn't experience any of the tribulations someone of a minority race might, but I cant leave myself completely out of it. I just try to never think of it as a right or wrong aspect, rather than what can I learn more about the situation from someone of a minority race so when I speak about it, I have the other sides opinion on certain things as well not trying to be ignorant. I like to think of myself as being very objective, but in today's society if your opinion is against the popular opinion on situations like this, you are quick to be called racist, which in-turn makes a lot of people too afraid to give their honest opinion.

I think most people want the same thing in this country, we just have to figure out how to get there.......together.

One thing I should highlight, when reading your post, is that I'm not saying white dudes have no business commenting on these incidents. Again, I'm not trying to take away anyones ability to express their opinion. I'm just saying that I think they should be willing to admit their limitations, such as you did by saying "that doesn't experience any of the tribulations someone of a minority race might".

However, I completely agree with "but I cant leave myself completely out of it. I just try to never think of it as a right or wrong aspect, rather than what can I learn more about the situation from someone of a minority race so when I speak about it, I have the other sides opinion on certain things as well not trying to be ignorant".

I re-read my post and it kind of sounded like I was saying white people don't get an opinion - that's not what I meant. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I do think if you haven't experienced what minorities experience you need to at least identify that.

Just like, on the flip side, if you haven't experienced what law enforcement officers have experience you should acknowledge that as well. Sword - i have the utmost respect for your profession and the difficult job that you do.

**Ortizer** · 07-14-2017, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorthRaven

One thing I should highlight, when reading your post, is that I'm not saying white dudes have no business commenting on these incidents. Again, I'm not trying to take away anyones ability to express their opinion. I'm just saying that I think they should be willing to admit their limitations, such as you did by saying "that doesn't experience any of the tribulations someone of a minority race might".

However, I completely agree with "but I cant leave myself completely out of it. I just try to never think of it as a right or wrong aspect, rather than what can I learn more about the situation from someone of a minority race so when I speak about it, I have the other sides opinion on certain things as well not trying to be ignorant".

I re-read my post and it kind of sounded like I was saying white people don't get an opinion - that's not what I meant. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I do think if you haven't experienced what minorities experience you need to at least identify that.

Just like, on the flip side, if you haven't experienced what law enforcement officers have experience you should acknowledge that as well. Sword - i have the utmost respect for your profession and the difficult job that you do.

It honestly seems people are in too big a hurry to get their opinion heard as well. A story pops up on the news, no investigation yet... There is almost no chance you have enough context for an informed opinion. There's the occasional exception (third party video comes to mind), but typically it takes awhile for all the facts to come out.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

**usmccharles** · 07-14-2017, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorthRaven

I re-read my post and it kind of sounded like I was saying white people don't get an opinion - that's not what I meant. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I do think if you haven't experienced what minorities experience you need to at least identify that.
.

I actually didn't take that away from what you said, my apologies if it sounded like I was implying so. Sidenote, was that youtube link able to work?

**Ortizer** · 07-14-2017, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by usmccharles

I actually didn't take that away from what you said, my apologies if it sounded like I was implying so. Sidenote, was that youtube link able to work?

I didn't watch the video at this point, but I see it embedded in your post, so I think the link is good.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

**GreatWhiteNorthRaven** · 07-14-2017, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by usmccharles

I actually didn't take that away from what you said, my apologies if it sounded like I was implying so. Sidenote, was that youtube link able to work?

Yup, it worked

**TTRaven** · 07-14-2017, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Jsmoove

fuck the police

A good friend of mine joined the Baltimore City police after retiring from the Marines. He was placed on a small drug/gang task force in east Baltimore. One night he and his 2 partner pulled over a suspicious vehicle. Drugs were found in the vehicle. My friend was handcuffing the back passenger when the driver attacked his partner. My friend rushed over to assist the other officer. The driver pulled out a gun and shot my friend in the face at point blank range. He somehow managed to return fire killing the suspect. It's a miracle that my friend is still here.

I get that maybe you've had/seen negative interactions with police. But when you say "fuck the police" you're demonizing every single police officer. Which is extremely offensive to the 90% of cops that actually do their job the right way.

Still I can understand your frustration. As there are some pretty awful people on the police force. And those awful people make it much harder for the good cops to do their job because of the negative view they've created.

**Baltravens** · 07-16-2017, 07:14 PM

Working in a related field now, and having worked as an investigator before with military lineage, where I live to quell the riff raff I support doubling the law enforcement in a neighboring county which has now over 1 million residents, and building another jail there.

I know how to get respect and compliance quickly, and I support law enforcement 100%. Our country has changed for the worse over the last 50 years. With the large drop off in ethics, too, I will be building a house before I retire which will be away from how sad/shameful our country has become. (I want to be living in a community where NOT EVERYTHING GOES. Unfortunately, our Constitution can be shown to support almost every kind of behavior, not including that which violates our criminal laws.)

**usmccharles** · 07-17-2017, 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by TTRaven

I get that maybe you've had/seen negative interactions with police. But when you say "fuck the police" you're demonizing every single police officer. Which is extremely offensive to the 90% of cops that actually do their job the right way.

Still I can understand your frustration. As there are some pretty awful people on the police force. And those awful people make it much harder for the good cops to do their job because of the negative view they've created.

I too get some people's frustration, but demonizing all for a small percentage of a groups actions is just irresponsible. How many good cops do something nice for a civilian that get zero coverage but the second a cop does something that can be construed as bad, with zero context, its covered by everyone and reposted on facebook. Being a Marine I had to deal with this, believe or not, a decent amount of civilians don't hold us that highly, (shocking I know) but I learned to ignore those ignorant people, life got better.

Originally Posted by Baltravens

I know how to get respect and compliance quickly, and I support law enforcement 100%. Our country has changed for the worse over the last 50 years. With the large drop off in ethics, too, I will be building a house before I retire which will be away from how sad/shameful our country has become. (I want to be living in a community where NOT EVERYTHING GOES. Unfortunately, our Constitution can be shown to support almost every kind of behavior, not including that which violates our criminal laws.)

That's a hard statement to justify in a certain context. Because over the last 50 years this country has made progress giving more people rights and trying to be more considerate of others 'feelings', sometimes to a fault in my opinion. I get what you're saying, but I don't think its that cut and dry. I honestly put most of the blame on social media.

**blah3** · 07-17-2017, 01:40 PM

IMO, I think a lot of the disrespect comes from victim mentality. It's been quite a while that we've been telling people it's not your fault, you're a victim. That breeds contempt against people telling you what to do (cops during a stop/interaction for example).
Now many cops are arrogant SOB's. That doesn't mean they are bad at their job. There are very few cops out there trying to screw people over IMO. But because they live in a split second life or death world, they need to be forceful (coming off as or being arrogant) and make decisions quickly and for their and others safety. So, yes it may suck you're stopped because you look like a suspect in a crime you didn't commit, but I'm giving a very large benefit of doubt to the cop risking his life in his job. Even if his life is not at risk while stopping you (he doesn't know that).
Plus the vast majority of shooting/killings by cops could be avoided it the person simply did what the cop asked.

**NCRAVEN** · 07-17-2017, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by blah3

IMO, I think a lot of the disrespect comes from victim mentality. It's been quite a while that we've been telling people it's not your fault, you're a victim. That breeds contempt against people telling you what to do (cops during a stop/interaction for example).
Now many cops are arrogant SOB's. That doesn't mean they are bad at their job. There are very few cops out there trying to screw people over IMO. But because they live in a split second life or death world, they need to be forceful (coming off as or being arrogant) and make decisions quickly and for their and others safety. So, yes it may suck you're stopped because you look like a suspect in a crime you didn't commit, but I'm giving a very large benefit of doubt to the cop risking his life in his job. Even if his life is not at risk while stopping you (he doesn't know that).
Plus the vast majority of shooting/killings by cops could be avoided it the person simply did what the cop asked.