Ravens spend way more cap money on offense than defense

**GreatWhiteNorthRaven** · 05-24-2017, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

I wish we stopped putting Joe in the same category with a bunch of HOFers.

At the same time I wish we stopped blaming everything on Joe

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**leachisabeast** · 05-24-2017, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorthRaven

At the same time I wish we stopped blaming everything on Joe

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Not many people here are. Seeing the odd Flacco basher pop up here with irrational comments is like the odd racist you see pop up blaming all Muslims for terrorism (don't mean to get political).

Most people here who criticise Joe on recent performance are most of the time totally correct imo. We can't just keep blaming everything around him, even though that does play a big role in it. In the same breath can we stop putting Joe in the HOF category? If he was great he'd at least be a bit better than he has been over the last two seasons. He is clearly a QB that needs a talented offense around him to be good, that's Eli Manning and Russell Wilson territory imo.

**sawraven1** · 05-24-2017, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Not many people here are. Seeing the odd Flacco basher pop up here with irrational comments is like the odd racist you see pop up blaming all Muslims for terrorism (don't mean to get political).

Most people here who criticise Joe on recent performance are most of the time totally correct imo. We can't just keep blaming everything around him, even though that does play a big role in it. In the same breath can we stop putting Joe in the HOF category? If he was great he'd at least be a bit better than he has been over the last two seasons. He is clearly a QB that needs a talented offense around him to be good, that's Eli Manning and Russell Wilson territory imo.

Of course he needs good talent around him. They all do even the elite ones. Was the Falcons offense the same when it was just Roddy White ? Nope, it sure matters when you have Julio Jones catching passes though.

To the People still banging on Joe, of course he needs to play better. Have you ever been injured or had a surgery before? especially on a knee? I have. You can tell last year he was playing as if he was trying not to get injured. Throwing off his back foot etc...

Hopefully this year he is more healed and its not so much in his mind but when you through and injury like that it is constantly on your mind to not re injure it. Every step I would take I would wonder was I re injuring it. He is playing football and getting beat up every game.

DO NOT forget that his management staff has done nothing to help him though. No additions of better talent, and how do you think Joe feels thinking to start the 2017 season his possible Right Tackle might very well be James Hurst the Bum who got blocked into Joes knee in the first place which started this mess.

James Hurst is not even a decent back up player let alone starter. Hurst wouldn't make another teams roster in my opinion he is that bad.

**HbgPARavenfan** · 05-24-2017, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

I wish we stopped putting Joe in the same category with a bunch of HOFers.

We're basically two dropped passes away from being in AT least 2 straight superbowls, (which we would have won) and I would argue Back-Back-Back appearances in the superbowl.

I dont think Flacco = Montana, Elway, Brady, Manning

I do think Flacco >/= Pig Pen and Eli (which are his closest Peers. He is a better QB, has performed better in the playoffs with far inferior talent.

Pig Jen and Eli will both get in the HOF. One because his WR had a better superbowl Passer rating than he did, and one because his WR tend to make the most insane catches at the most improbable times.

**GreatWhiteNorthRaven** · 05-24-2017, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Not many people here are. Seeing the odd Flacco basher pop up here with irrational comments is like the odd racist you see pop up blaming all Muslims for terrorism (don't mean to get political).

Most people here who criticise Joe on recent performance are most of the time totally correct imo. We can't just keep blaming everything around him, even though that does play a big role in it. In the same breath can we stop putting Joe in the HOF category? If he was great he'd at least be a bit better than he has been over the last two seasons. He is clearly a QB that needs a talented offense around him to be good, that's Eli Manning and Russell Wilson territory imo.

Yeah well the irrational comments causes the tangents. Usually the irrational comment brings up Brady or Manning and then the argument becomes about Flacco vs them. The response is usually not trying to argue Flacco is better, but it comes across this way.

That's what a troll does. They cause tangents and throw the conversation off course. My comment remains the same.

**Goode05** · 05-24-2017, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Not many people here are. Seeing the odd Flacco basher pop up here with irrational comments is like the odd racist you see pop up blaming all Muslims for terrorism (don't mean to get political).

Most people here who criticise Joe on recent performance are most of the time totally correct imo. We can't just keep blaming everything around him, even though that does play a big role in it. In the same breath can we stop putting Joe in the HOF category? If he was great he'd at least be a bit better than he has been over the last two seasons. He is clearly a QB that needs a talented offense around him to be good, that's Eli Manning and Russell Wilson territory imo.

That's every Qb. Name one of the greats that were not surrounded by great talent and usually a Great coach/scheme. Off the top of my head the two widely regarded Goats. Joe Montana had Jerry Rice and Walsh so much so they shipped him out and won a ring right after. Brady has Gronk Welker Moss and of course Hoodie. It's not a coincidence

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**Goode05** · 05-24-2017, 08:37 AM

The honest answer is this team won't have a decent offense till Harbaugh is outta here and possibly Ozzie too. How old our Qb is when this happens is everyone's guess. But then again in 5 years or so Joe will be gone and we get to go through the Boller Redmound Anthony Wright
Stone Casey years again I know I'm excited for that how bout you?

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**srobert96** · 05-24-2017, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by Goode05

The qb and the offense would need to have more then one year in a system before you could ever expect any kind of sophisticated approach. That just hasent happened nor do I ever see it happening hell even having a year of the same system would be a miracle as it's what the 4th or 5th system in as many years. You just can't win like this

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Bingo! The biggest issue the Ravens have on offense is the constant changing of systems and personnel. Asking a QB to constantly learn a new system and adjust to new receivers is going to play a big part in being mediocre. It is hard to creative when you have to teach everyone a system every 1.5 - 2 years. The good news about MM staying is that at least he and Joe don't have to get to know each other. Imagine getting a new boss every 1.5 years. They use different terminology, want things done differently and have a different personality. New England does well because they have been running the same system for a long time. GB has been running the same system for a long time. Big Ben has had two offensive coordinators.

**Goode05** · 05-24-2017, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by srobert96

Bingo! The biggest issue the Ravens have on offense is the constant changing of systems and personnel. Asking a QB to constantly learn a new system and adjust to new receivers is going to play a big part in being mediocre. It is hard to creative when you have to teach everyone a system every 1.5 - 2 years. The good news about MM staying is that at least he and Joe don't have to get to know each other. Imagine getting a new boss every 1.5 years. They use different terminology, want things done differently and have a different personality. New England does well because they have been running the same system for a long time. GB has been running the same system for a long time. Big Ben has had two offensive coordinators.

And the blame goes 100% to Harbaugh or maybe Biscotti gets some for hiring a coach who has no philosophy

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**BcRaven** · 05-24-2017, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by Goode05
The qb and the offense would need to have more then one year in a system before you could ever expect any kind of sophisticated approach.

Yes, this is also why I'm glad we kept Wallace instead of releasing him and taking on another veteran WR. He had a decent 2016 season, and now has some sort of chemistry with Flacco. I'm hoping that same thing applies to Perriman too... Bc

**GreatWhiteNorthRaven** · 05-24-2017, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by MontibelloValhalla

If the offensive line comes together, there is no excuse for the Ravens not to have a top 15 offense. That with a top 5 defense should propel a playoff berth.

Law Firm of McCauley, Dickey and McMillan.

You're missing a few ifs, IMO.

- IF BP takes the next step.
- IF our TE's can stay healthy
- IF Camp or Moore takes control of the slot.

Those pass catchers stepping up are absolutely crucial. Joe can't throw and catch the ball as well.

**Ravens44** · 05-24-2017, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by BcRaven

Yes, this is also why I'm glad we kept Wallace instead of releasing him and taking on another veteran WR. He had a decent 2016 season, and now has some sort of chemistry with Flacco. I'm hoping that same thing applies to Perriman too... Bc

Chemistry is HUGE in football. Its a team sport, so knowing what the other 10 are going to do at any given time because you KNOW them and have played with them at game speed for years is how great teams are forged.
Changing philosophies every year, changing key personnel every other year...no timing and confidence can be created.
Players are thinking instead of reading and reacting.
How many times do receivers run the wrong rout, either because they are new or young and Joe thinks they are running a different rout?
Chemistry plays a huge aspect with timing and ball placement.
Joe sees something but the receiver sees something else.
How about a receiver working back to Joe?
How about Joe KNOWING what his receivers are seeing or thinking?
That's something that usually happens in New England or Pittsburgh or Atlanta.
Dalton knows when he is in trouble, he can just throw it up in the direction of Green because Green WILL try to make a play and usually does.
He struggled this past season because there wasn't anyone besides Green out there.
But there will be two more WRs to complement Green and Eifert (if healthy) this season.
Ben can buy time in the pocket because he KNOWS his receivers will break off their routs and improvise to get OPEN.
Sometimes, it looks like those plays are planned that way...but they are a by-product of continuity and chemistry.

I still believe that remarkable 2012 playoff run was a combination of many things coming together at the precise time.
New coordinator running the offense, offensive line readjustment just in time, Boldin moved to the slot where he always belonged, veteran receivers KNOWING their rolls and seeing the same things as Joe and ball placement according to the receiver targeted...and 5th straight year of playoff experience for Joe.