Anyone still doubt Obama administration had surveillance on Trump?

[HoustonRaven]

It says the unmasking of names is illegal, doesn't it...?

Again, from the Bloomberg opinion piece ....

"The standard for senior officials to learn the names of U.S. persons incidentally collected is that it must have some foreign intelligence value, a standard that can apply to almost anything. This suggests Rice's unmasking requests were likely within the law."

But lets say for argument it was against the law to unmask US citizens, so what? How does Rice messing up prove Trump himself was being wiretapped?

[NCRAVEN]

Again, from the article ....

"The standard for senior officials to learn the names of U.S. persons incidentally collected is that it must have some foreign intelligence value, a standard that can apply to almost anything. This suggests Rice's unmasking requests were likely within the law."

But lets say for argument it was against the law to unmask US citizens, so what? How does Rice messing up prove Trump himself was being wiretapped?

I never said it did.

[HoustonRaven]

I never said it did.

It's the whole premise of the thread

[NCRAVEN]

It's the whole premise of the thread

Okay, that doesn't mean I agree with that.

I was specifically commenting on Rice unmasking of the names, which could be legal, but potentially leaking the names/intel is a felony. Personally I don't think (if that is what happened) Rice decided on her own to do that. Thus she'd sing like a canary instead of getting 10 years to say who asked her to do that.

[blah3]

What I believe happened is that Trump's team was caught up in surveillance of Russians.
The names of the Americans involved, instead of being redacted and minimized, were instead ID'd. This data went throughout the various intelligence communities even more than what would have been done before with Obama's new rules about sharing implemented just before he left office. People inside these departments who are totally against Trump leaked info to try and damage the Trump administration.

[NCRAVEN]

What I believe happened is that Trump's team was caught up in surveillance of Russians.
The names of the Americans involved, instead of being redacted and minimized, were instead ID'd. This data went throughout the various intelligence communities even more than what would have been done before with Obama's new rules about sharing implemented just before he left office. People inside these departments who are totally against Trump leaked info to try and damage the Trump administration.

That sounds legit. What I'm not clear on is, didn't Obama sign that order on his last day, and what Rice did/was doing goes back a year?

[blah3]

That sounds legit. What I'm not clear on is, didn't Obama sign that order on his last day, and what Rice did/was doing goes back a year?

What I believe Rice did ( I haven't read up on all of that story yet) is ask for the Americans to be identified. That would be stuff heard under 'normal' surveillance of Russians. For example, this would be how they had information about Flynn.
So, that info could be generated prior to Obama signing the order.
AFTER Obama signed the order, that data could be shared throughout 16 agencies. So you have much deeper pool of people who could see it afterwards. Thus multiplying the amount of possible leakers.

[darb72]

What I believe Rice did ( I haven't read up on all of that story yet) is ask for the Americans to be identified. That would be stuff heard under 'normal' surveillance of Russians. For example, this would be how they had information about Flynn.
So, that info could be generated prior to Obama signing the order.
AFTER Obama signed the order, that data could be shared throughout 16 agencies. So you have much deeper pool of people who could see it afterwards. Thus multiplying the amount of possible leakers.

So why unmask? There is absolutely no evidence Trump colluded with the Russians, so that argument is out. Why did Rice change her story? Remember the first time she was asked about it, she said she had no clue what they were talking about. Now, she's says she had them unmasked.

Let's not forget Susan Rice was tied up in the Benghazi scandal too.

[GreatWhiteNorthRaven]

I like how people that say there is no evidence Trump colluded with the Russians are the first ones to point out the Obama wiretapping stuff....despite their being no evidence.

Party identification by damned!

[NCRAVEN]

I like how people that say there is no evidence Trump colluded with the Russians are the first ones to point out the Obama wiretapping stuff....despite their being no evidence.

Party identification by damned!

No fire for either, just a little bit of smoke.

[blah3]

I like how people that say there is no evidence Trump colluded with the Russians are the first ones to point out the Obama wiretapping stuff....despite their being no evidence.

Party identification by damned!

There is plenty of evidence that members of Trump's team were caught up in surveillance.
Again Gen Flynn is an example of this. Now, if there were evidence of 'collusion' with the Russians, well, that information would have come out already. The intelligence agencies are not leaking, hey Flynn really did meet with the Russians when he said he didn't. But not leaking if they talked about dropping sanctions for example.

[HoustonRaven]

There is plenty of evidence that members of Trump's team were caught up in surveillance.
Again Gen Flynn is an example of this. Now, if there were evidence of 'collusion' with the Russians, well, that information would have come out already. The intelligence agencies are not leaking, hey Flynn really did meet with the Russians when he said he didn't. But not leaking if they talked about dropping sanctions for example.

The investigations just started. So no, that info would not have "come out already".