Filmstudy questions

[Rxdoxx]

Pees called just 2 deceptive blitzes which resulted in a gain of 22 with an 8-man rush (Q3, 5:47) as well as a 2-yard pass against a double twist.

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/...rush-bengals/#

(5:47) (Shotgun) Dalton short quick pass left to Boyd pushed out by Webb at at the 10 for 22 yards

Was Webb? playing off? it was 3rd and 7 ... haven't had time to re-watch so don't know if it was Webb's man and how much cushion Boyd had. 8 man rush means only 3 in secondary, with 3rd and 7- how much cushion were we giving for a quick unloading pass?


Was the twist on this 4thQ play?
(8:50) (Shotgun) Dalton short pass right to Burkhead pushed out by Orr at CIN 49 for 2 yards
Were both deceptive blitzes in the 4thQ?

Nice to see fresh pressure in the 4thQ
My thoughts would have been to be substituting more earlier to keep the starters fresher late.... but from what you report, the "subs" were held back until late.
What is your take on working the subs in early to keep starters fresh (like Jernigan) versus just bringing in a fresh body late like Urban?

[AmishlandRavenFan]

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/...rush-bengals/#

(5:47) (Shotgun) Dalton short quick pass left to Boyd pushed out by Webb at at the 10 for 22 yards

Was Webb? playing off? it was 3rd and 7 ... haven't had time to re-watch so don't know if it was Webb's man and how much cushion Boyd had. 8 man rush means only 3 in secondary, with 3rd and 7- how much cushion were we giving for a quick unloading pass?


Was the twist on this 4thQ play?
(8:50) (Shotgun) Dalton short pass right to Burkhead pushed out by Orr at CIN 49 for 2 yards
Were both deceptive blitzes in the 4thQ?

Nice to see fresh pressure in the 4thQ
My thoughts would have been to be substituting more earlier to keep the starters fresher late.... but from what you report, the "subs" were held back until late.
What is your take on working the subs in early to keep starters fresh (like Jernigan) versus just bringing in a fresh body late like Urban?

From the same article:

"What adjustments led to the revitalization? Matt Judon was rested and played 6 snaps in the 4th quarter, including 2 PDs. Timmy Jernigan, who managed just 1 pressure in 32 pass rush snaps, left halfway through the final drive and Brent Urban used his height to contribute a PD and another pressure over the last 7 defensive snaps. Terrell Suggs delivered a pair of strip sacks and a pressure in the 2nd half despite his heaviest play workload of the season (57 snaps). Elvis Dumervil (16 of 33 pass rush snaps in Q4) had enough left in the tank to register 3 pressures – and the game-winning strip sack – on the last 2 drives."

I think the obvious answer to your question is more playing time for Judon, less for McClellan and Z. Honestly, I'd like to see a full-blown rotation with waves of players coming after the ball carrier and QB. Urban's height is a problem for QBs' throwing windows and Z may be better suited as a junk yard dog edge setter. Regardless, it's a good problem to have, especially with Dooms return. Can't have too many pass rushers, and fresh legs down the stretch should lead to good things!

[Ravenswintitle]

Ken McKusick ‏@FilmstudyRavens 7h7 hours ago
#Ravens are on pace for the best run defense of all time, by DVOA. The current best is the 2000 Ravens. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2016/week-12-dvoa-ratings …

[saintmatthew]

"His other PD came on an athletic reach around (Q4, 6:08) "

LOL

[Rxdoxx]

Ken McKusick ‏@FilmstudyRavens 7h7 hours ago
#Ravens are on pace for the best run defense of all time, by DVOA. The current best is the 2000 Ravens. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2016/week-12-dvoa-ratings …

Yep, TY

my wondering was for Ken's thoughts on substitution patterns...

Play the subs little early and use them late when fresh?
Or let the starters tire out (and tire the O-line out) then bring in the subs late?

Things like, does Ken think the starters would be more effective with more rest, or will the subs be more effective with a tired OL ....
can't have both .... seeing Judon with minimal snaps early, then increased in 2nd half .... Urban got in late, don't remember seeing him early on D at all

My gut says Dumervil had stuff left in the tank late because he was inactive for several games (less accumulated nicks/dings)
My gut also says that Suggs will burn out if continued heavy usage .... so more curiosity about earlier substituting (rotational) vs later substituting

want Ken's take on the philosophy

[Filmstudy]

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/...rush-bengals/#

(5:47) (Shotgun) Dalton short quick pass left to Boyd pushed out by Webb at at the 10 for 22 yards

Was Webb? playing off? it was 3rd and 7 ... haven't had time to re-watch so don't know if it was Webb's man and how much cushion Boyd had. 8 man rush means only 3 in secondary, with 3rd and 7- how much cushion were we giving for a quick unloading pass?


Was the twist on this 4thQ play?
(8:50) (Shotgun) Dalton short pass right to Burkhead pushed out by Orr at CIN 49 for 2 yards
Were both deceptive blitzes in the 4thQ?

Nice to see fresh pressure in the 4thQ
My thoughts would have been to be substituting more earlier to keep the starters fresher late.... but from what you report, the "subs" were held back until late.
What is your take on working the subs in early to keep starters fresh (like Jernigan) versus just bringing in a fresh body late like Urban?

(Q3, 5:47) Webb was playing vs Boyd in the left slot. All 3 CBs were 7 yards off their respective receivers on 3rd and 7. Both safeties, both ILBs, and all 4 of the men at the LoS rushed, but Dalton had time to find Boyd, even with Webb, but breaking to the outside. The issue for the Ravens was an inability to get pressure of any sort.

The above play and (Q4, 8:50, 2 twists), as you identified it, were the 2 deceptive blitzes by my definition.

I'm all for additional substitution, which would have helped keep the defense fresh, particularly getting McClellan or Orr off the field for Levine in the dime. That would do wonders to keep Orr's energy level high for his trademark plays (see Jamie Sharper 2000). I'm happy with the pass rush rotation, but one facet freshly discovered is the usefulness of Urban, so perhaps getting him more snaps early for Jernigan would have helped.

It also would have helped to have more offense. The Bengals ran 71 plays, which is a high total and something we've seen all too frequently in the last few years from the Cincy offense with the ability to generate long drives with their big line. A lot of folks have also been calling for an up-tempo sugar-huddle scheme which would have Flacco calling plays at the LoS. If the Ravens went to it, the offense might be 25% better, but it also wouldn't surprise me if the defense suddenly got significantly worse.

[Filmstudy]

Yep, TY

my wondering was for Ken's thoughts on substitution patterns...

Play the subs little early and use them late when fresh?
Or let the starters tire out (and tire the O-line out) then bring in the subs late?

Things like, does Ken think the starters would be more effective with more rest, or will the subs be more effective with a tired OL ....
can't have both .... seeing Judon with minimal snaps early, then increased in 2nd half .... Urban got in late, don't remember seeing him early on D at all

My gut says Dumervil had stuff left in the tank late because he was inactive for several games (less accumulated nicks/dings)
My gut also says that Suggs will burn out if continued heavy usage .... so more curiosity about earlier substituting (rotational) vs later substituting

want Ken's take on the philosophy

You've got it pegged almost exactly with each comment, Rxdoxx.

The one additional comment I'll say (which it's clear you understand) is that while total snaps are important, it's really consecutive snaps which reduce defensive effectiveness, particularly in terms of a static set of pass rushers. So Jernigan could have been more effective had he never been asked to play more than 3 snaps in a row, like Judon. Jernigan was, however, asked to play streaks of 4, 9, 4, 5, 8, 4, and 6. And those are all streaks within a drive.

[Rxdoxx]

So Jernigan could have been more effective had he never been asked to play more than 3 snaps in a row, like Judon. Jernigan was, however, asked to play streaks of 4, 9, 4, 5, 8, 4, and 6. And those are all streaks within a drive.

Yeow

Remember Goose only used to be in for 50% of the snaps .... the chants of Goooooose Gooooose .... he could make plays because he wasn't gassed. (IIRC Dalton/Washington but maybe not) Adams played a little more.

Remember seeing Haloti burned out late. No Pocket push at all, all he would do is patrol in front of the OL and try to time jumps to block passes... watching him with Detroit I see the same, he is kind of hunched down, moving slowly sideways, eyes on the QB (Urban is at least pushing the pocket a little to force a higher arc on the ball)

Looks like the 9 play Jernigan stretch was the FG and the 8 play stretch was the TD with the missed EP and the 6 plays was the last FG ... either way it correlates with scores which makes sense.

So you are in favor of earlier rotation starting?

[Justlovemybirds]

(Q3, 5:47) Webb was playing vs Boyd in the left slot. All 3 CBs were 7 yards off their respective receivers on 3rd and 7. Both safeties, both ILBs, and all 4 of the men at the LoS rushed, but Dalton had time to find Boyd, even with Webb, but breaking to the outside. The issue for the Ravens was an inability to get pressure of any sort.

The above play and (Q4, 8:50, 2 twists), as you identified it, were the 2 deceptive blitzes by my definition.

I'm all for additional substitution, which would have helped keep the defense fresh, particularly getting McClellan or Orr off the field for Levine in the dime. That would do wonders to keep Orr's energy level high for his trademark plays (see Jamie Sharper 2000). I'm happy with the pass rush rotation, but one facet freshly discovered is the usefulness of Urban, so perhaps getting him more snaps early for Jernigan would have helped.

It also would have helped to have more offense. The Bengals ran 71 plays, which is a high total and something we've seen all too frequently in the last few years from the Cincy offense with the ability to generate long drives with their big line. A lot of folks have also been calling for an up-tempo sugar-huddle scheme which would have Flacco calling plays at the LoS. If the Ravens went to it, the offense might be 25% better, but it also wouldn't surprise me if the defense suddenly got significantly worse.

It was odd to me that Urban seemingly had very little snaps until recently especially now that he's healthy. I think he could be a monster run stopper so I'm happy he's getting more action.

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[moose10101]

Ken McKusick ‏@FilmstudyRavens 7h7 hours ago
#Ravens are on pace for the best run defense of all time, by DVOA. The current best is the 2000 Ravens. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2016/week-12-dvoa-ratings …

A big part of this is that teams don't try to run as much, due to the rule changes and offensive systems.

[Filmstudy]

It was odd to me that Urban seemingly had very little snaps until recently especially now that he's healthy. I think he could be a monster run stopper so I'm happy he's getting more action.

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He really has contributed vs. both run and pass, but I'm hoping the 7 snaps at the end vs. Cincy aren't just "short-QB" snaps. He could be a legitimate passing down alternative for inside rush with his height and the fact he's fresh most of the game. He could also take some of the run-down burden off Guy or Jernigan to keep them a little fresher.

The Ravens have a very nice problem with their interior DL. First, they only average 2.14 DL per snap (they run a reasonable percentage of plays with 3, 2, and 1), 1408 individual snaps split over 659 meaningful snaps (excludes penalties, kneels, spikes, ST). They have 5 defensive lineman active each week who are all healthy and looking for snaps. In fact, they've been so healthy, they shut down Henry (IR) before he played a single snap. That means the average player is only going to play 42.7% of snaps. The actual percentages for the big 5 are:

Guy: 43.1%
Jernigan: 63.6%
Pierce: 33.7%
Urban: 13.5%
Williams: 59.8%

It's a good problem to have and with Jernigan showing some signs of needing a lighter workload after a big start, it's good to know there may be a solution on the roster.

[BlackBeak]

He really has contributed vs. both run and pass, but I'm hoping the 7 snaps at the end vs. Cincy aren't just "short-QB" snaps. He could be a legitimate passing down alternative for inside rush with his height and the fact he's fresh most of the game. He could also take some of the run-down burden off Guy or Jernigan to keep them a little fresher.

The Ravens have a very nice problem with their interior DL. First, they only average 2.14 DL per snap (they run a reasonable percentage of plays with 3, 2, and 1), 1408 individual snaps split over 659 meaningful snaps (excludes penalties, kneels, spikes, ST). They have 5 defensive lineman active each week who are all healthy and looking for snaps. In fact, they've been so healthy, they shut down Henry (IR) before he played a single snap. That means the average player is only going to play 42.7% of snaps. The actual percentages for the big 5 are:

Guy: 43.1%
Jernigan: 63.6%
Pierce: 33.7%
Urban: 13.5%
Williams: 59.8%

It's a good problem to have and with Jernigan showing some signs of needing a lighter workload after a big start, it's good to know there may be a solution on the roster.

It has been the tendency of the coaching staff to bring along D-linemen at a bit of a slow pace. I think it might be a trust issue. The defense probably has a fair number of plays but then there are so many variations and expectations based on the offense doing all the different things they might do. So I'm saying I suspect the low snap counts with Urban might have more to do with bringing him along slowly in a risk control environment until they are confident they can run their whole book without him having a big lapse - this is the norm. Williams, Guy and Jernigan started slow, too. I know Urban has been around for a while, but he is still young in terms of getting snaps, and you can see that the staff is gaining confidence in him. His snaps keep creeping up. That's a good thing. So is the fact that he was the mid-season IR designee to return last year and that we haven't heard a peep about injuries issues from him in a while.

It just seems to me the stars might be aligning now for Urban. I wish they had played him more in the Dallas game which is the only game I remember this season where the defense just looked too gassed to keep up the fight. I think he should take a few snaps from Guy and a few from Jernigan just to sustain a fresher line in general and to get that height in there as a form of JJ Swat pass defense.