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  1. Re: OT: City of Baltimore's Sports Mt. Rushmore

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongBaldy View Post
    still have not seen a compelling argument against phelps. dude is the GREATEST Olympian EVER and he is from BALTImore.
    numbers dont lie. he is no doubt #1 lock on there. :usa:

    thoughts on babe ruth since he was born here?
    He belongs on NY's Mt Rushmore. That's like Michael Jordan was born in Brooklyn NY, but he's Chicago all day!!





  2. #38

    Re: OT: City of Baltimore's Sports Mt. Rushmore

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenstatsman View Post
    Nah, can't have a Yankee on our Mount Rushmore.
    Quote Originally Posted by 757RavensFan View Post
    He belongs on NY's Mt Rushmore. That's like Michael Jordan was born in Brooklyn NY, but he's Chicago all day!!
    i can
    roll with that





  3. #39
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    Re: OT: City of Baltimore's Sports Mt. Rushmore

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongBaldy View Post
    still have not seen a compelling argument against phelps. dude is the GREATEST Olympian EVER and he is from BALTImore.
    numbers dont lie.
    Most people don't even know the numbers because they only pay attention to swimming for two weeks every 4 years. Yes, Michael Phelps is the greatest medal winner in Olympic history (18 golds, 22 total medals), but he also has been named AP Athlete of the Year twice, Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year, James Sullivan Award winner (best amateur athlete), has held 39 world records, and has won more gold medals in the World Championships (around 26) than in the Olympics. So just combining World Championships and Olympic Championships, he has been the best in the entire world around 45 times over his 16 year career. He also has been named the world's best swimmer seven different years - that's like seven MVPs of the entire world in his sport. He might be a jerk, but his athletic accomplishments are unparalleled.





  4. #40
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    Re: OT: City of Baltimore's Sports Mt. Rushmore

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenstatsman View Post
    No doubt the 1960's was a brutal era for hitters, as evidenced by the insane numbers put up by some pitchers (Bob Gibson putting up a 1.12 ERA in 300+ innings, SMH). Brooks was able to amass 47.4 offensive WAR over his career, which indicates he was a very productive hitter for his position and for his era, but certainly not elite over the course of his career. His defense was elite, and overall he was an excellent player. But I don't see him on the level of players like Lewis, Unitas, and Ripken. I don't mean at all to disparage the man, but I am simply basing my opinion on their on-the-field performance, and since I never saw Brooks play, I have to go with the stats.
    Here we go with the dreaded 'E' word. 'Elite' is subjective, but it generally means one of the best. Looking strictly at offense, Brooks was the #2 offensive third baseman of his era, after Eddie Matthews. Ron Santo and Brooks are actually about equal in terms of offensive output -- in fact their JAWS is identical. Ken Boyer was great, but a notch below IMO. Speaking strictly offensively, how is the #2 guy of his era *not* elite? His offensive performance is the least compelling argument for his inclusion on Mt Rushmore, and still, he was one of the top offensive performers at his position in his era.

    Of course when you're talking about Mt Rushmore worthiness, you don't ignore the defense. SIXTEEN Gold Gloves in 23 years. He retired with most third base fielding records in his back pocket. Most consider him to be one of the greatest defensive players in the history of the game regardless of position. Willie Mays, Ozzie Smith, Brooks Robinson -- in that kind of company. When you talk about the great pitching of those O's teams (4 20-game winners) a huge factor in that was how impossible it was for a batter to get a ball through the left side of the infield.

    But really, the most compelling reason to include Brooks is all the intangibles that get lost to younger generations. I get that players are generally less appreciated as time goes on. We all love our childhood heroes. Honestly, if you wanted to know what Brooks Robinson meant to this city, you had to be at "Thanks Brooks Day" in 1977. Tears streaming down the faces of grown men. I've been to Ray's and Cal's farewell tours, and they did not compare.

    Attachment 3726

    Brooks brought championships, Brooks brought The Oriole Way when there was such a thing. Johnny and Brooks are this city's Washington and Jefferson. Put them on the damn mountain.
    "Chin up, chest out."





  5. #41
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    Re: OT: City of Baltimore's Sports Mt. Rushmore

    Orioles and Ravens bring the titles home to Baltimore. Baltimore won the World Series, Baltimore won the SB. Baltimore didn't win an Olympic gold metal. Phelps brings his metals home to, well, his home.

    Brooks, Unitas, Lewis are a lock for me, and can make arguments for Reed, Ogden, Weaver, Palmer, Frank R. or Murray, or if that's too hard to decide between we just add Wild Bill Hagy as wildcard!





  6. #42
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    Re: OT: City of Baltimore's Sports Mt. Rushmore

    Quote Originally Posted by DonNMass View Post
    Orioles and Ravens bring the titles home to Baltimore. Baltimore won the World Series, Baltimore won the SB. Baltimore didn't win an Olympic gold metal. Phelps brings his metals home to, well, his home.

    Brooks, Unitas, Lewis are a lock for me, and can make arguments for Reed, Ogden, Weaver, Palmer, Frank R. or Murray, or if that's too hard to decide between we just add Wild Bill Hagy as wildcard!
    I agree with your locks. Personally I'd put Cal in as the 4th. He's iconic.
    "Chin up, chest out."





  7. #43
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    Re: OT: City of Baltimore's Sports Mt. Rushmore

    Quote Originally Posted by HotInHere View Post
    I agree with your locks. Personally I'd put Cal in as the 4th. He's iconic.
    My bad, I had him as my 4th and got off of the wildcard tangent. His name will always be the benchmark for streaks and his name will be mentioned forever when someone goes a year or two, and it over shadows what a skilled and unique player he was. He changed the position in that a big strong player could play SS.





  8. #44
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    Re: OT: City of Baltimore's Sports Mt. Rushmore

    Can an argument be made for Wes Unseld?





  9. Re: OT: City of Baltimore's Sports Mt. Rushmore

    Quote Originally Posted by DonNMass View Post
    Can an argument be made for Wes Unseld?
    If the Baltimore Bullets were to be considered, I'd suggest Elvin Hayes.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk





  10. #46

    Re: OT: City of Baltimore's Sports Mt. Rushmore

    To me the argument is over who's last in between Ray, Cal, Brooks, and Unitas. To me it's Brooks but this page says Cal.





  11. #47
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    Re: OT: City of Baltimore's Sports Mt. Rushmore

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenstatsman View Post
    I don't see him on the level of players like Lewis, Unitas, and Ripken. I don't mean at all to disparage the man, but I am simply basing my opinion on their on-the-field performance, and since I never saw Brooks play, I have to go with the stats.
    Stats, schmatts! I'll try to provide you a few factoids which even the coldest stats analyst should understand about Brooks which underscore why Brooks not only belongs on the Mt Rushmore list, but, in my opinion, is up there with our Johnny U at the top of the list:

    • led or co-led (with Frank & Boog) the O's to 4 World Series in 6 seasons
    • perennial All-Star
    • perennial Gold Glove winner
    • too bad you couldn't see him in the 70 World Series. Against the favored "Big Red Machine", Brooks smothered their batted balls so well that the Reds' big guns like Rose and Bench looked to have been terrorized when they came to bat.


    Often forgotten are the "Baby Birds" of 1960 & '61, who came within a whisker of knocking off the Yankees, the AL's dominant teams for decades. Brooks was the heart of those teams.

    ---------------------------------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by lovefootball View Post
    Lot of great Orioles back in the 60's. Probably won't get a older fan to agree on any of the recent Orioles. We are like dinasaurs, the game was better back then
    Agree that Manny has a way to go to catch up with Brooks or Cal, but I do think that Chris Davis belongs in the same discusion of home runs with Frank and Boog. Watching his bombs at the Yard can be breathtaking.

    ---------------------------------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongBaldy View Post
    still have not seen a compelling argument against phelps. dude is the GREATEST Olympian EVER and he is from BALTImore.
    Here's my compelling argument: swimming is not a major league sport!

    How many here watch it outside of the Olympics? Swimming message boards? Fan clubs? :grbac:
    In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).





  12. #48
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    Re: OT: City of Baltimore's Sports Mt. Rushmore

    Quote Originally Posted by Mista T View Post
    [*] too bad you couldn't see him in the 70 World Series. Against the favored "Big Red Machine", Brooks smothered their batted balls so well that the Reds' big guns like Rose and Bench looked to have been terrorized when they came to bat.

    I can remember Bench stopping on the way back to the dugout and just looking down the line at Brooks
    The big red machine ran into the human vacuum cleaner and couldn't believe what they were seeing.

    "He's not at his locker yet, but four guys are over there interviewing his glove." - Rex Barney to reporters looking to interview Brooks Robinson after the 1970 World Series

    "He was the best defensive player at any position. I used to stand in the outfield like a fan and watch him make play after play. I used to think WOW, I can't believe this." - Frank Robinson

    "Brooks Robinson belongs in a higher league." - Pete Rose

    "He can throw his glove out there and it will start ten double plays by itself." - Sparky Anderson

    "He charged everything. He reacted as the ball was coming off the bat, sometimes as it was coming to the bat!" - George Brett

    "He didn't look fast, in fact he was kinda slow, but he was always there. On double plays when he had to come a long way, he had this way of just rolling across the bag and flipping the ball under his arm. He was the best second baseman (Cuban Winter League) I have ever seen." - Orlanda Pena

    "I will become a left-handed hitter to keep the ball away from that guy." - Johnny Bench

    "There's not a man who knows him who wouldn't swear for his integrity and honesty and give testimony to his consideration of others. He's an extraordinary human being, which is important, and the world's greatest third baseman of all time, which is incidental." - John Steadman of The News American

    "Very nice (play) . . . where do they plug Mr. Hoover in?" - Lee May

    "You know it's a crime for anybody to have as much fun as Robby's having . . . and making money for it." - Robin Roberts
    http://www.baseball-almanac.com/quotes/quobrob.shtml
    at one point of my life I was exactly Pi years old





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