Orlando shooting

[NCRAVEN]

I agree with you. I should have clarified. This guy was hell bent on destruction, regardless of how he obtained the means to carry it out. My point was that someone (like me) can favor an assault weapon ban, yet also clearly see the huge security problem that Islam apologetics has created in the Western world.

The problem is, there is no such thing as an "assault weapon"

http://www.assaultweapon.info/

[BigPlayReceiver]

OK, and to get to the point about being on the No-Fly List and still being able to purchase a gun. The reason behind that is that you cannot strip Constitutional protections for citizens without due process.

The vast majority of folks on the NFL are not US citizens and thereby are without protection.
They also may not be on the Terrorist Watch List.
Yet, if they have a valid ID, and have been in the US for more than 90 days (I think I got that right, 90 days), they can legally purchase any fire-arm allowed.

I realize that Mateen was not (at least not to public knowledge) on the NFL or TWL, but FWIW I'm pointing to the general illogic and dysfunction of our natsec apparatus.

[JohnBKistler]

I agree with you. I should have clarified. This guy was hell bent on destruction, regardless of how he obtained the means to carry it out. My point was that someone (like me) can favor an assault weapon ban, yet also clearly see the huge security problem that Islam apologetics has created in the Western world.

I hear you. And when the next "average American" uses an AR-15 to kill a bunch of people, let's have that discussion (along with mental health treatment and others).

But when this is a clear act of Islamic terror, I want the guy that presumably takes his oath to protect the American people focusing his administration on that threat and not leveraging it for other causes. That has serious consequences down the line.

This situation required unity and leadership. We got "wafelling" and waiting from Clinton and "the same ole same ole" us/them blue/red from the President.

As I said in the other thread, not a Trump supporter, but can see why some people may gravitate to his side on this one.

[Ngata Da Vida]

The problem is, there is no such thing as an "assault weapon"

http://www.assaultweapon.info/

Semantics. I see little point in the need to fire off 60 rounds a minute, unless you want to inflict maximum damage.

But I digress - my point was that just because you favor modified gun control, that doesn't align you with the tissue soft approach of the Obama administration when it comes to Islamic terrorism.

[Ngata Da Vida]

This situation required unity and leadership. We got "wafelling" and waiting from Clinton and "the same ole same ole" us/them blue/red from the President.

Yup. An absolute failure of leadership. 7 1/2 years in, and our President is still obsessed with not being his predecessor, to the point of absolute weakness.

[NCRAVEN]

Semantics. I see little point in the need to fire off 60 rounds a minute, unless you want to inflict maximum damage.

But I digress - my point was that just because you favor modified gun control, that doesn't align you with the tissue soft approach of the Obama administration when it comes to Islamic terrorism.

Funny, I see the soft approach of the Obama administration when it comes to Islamic terrorism, the exact reason I need the ability to fire 60 rounds a minute to inflict maximum damage.

[The Fanatic]

Why is it that many are hell bent on protecting the 2nd amendment?
I'm all for people being able to legally buy firearms and protect themselves, their families and even a trained citizen being able to have a concealed carry permit that could in many cases protect and defuse a situation like what just happened potentially cutting the death toll down significantly.

With that being said.....
The 2nd amendment was written over 200 years ago.
I'm thinking back then that they didn't have in mind that it would include military assault weapons that were never even developed yet and were no more then maybe a thought in a soldiers mind that it would be nice if he could fire more rounds quicker.

The gun laws need to be looked at, and not eliminating the right to buy firearms but what type of firearms should be permitted for the general public.
You don't need an AR-15 to kill a home intruder or take down a deer while hunting in the woods.
That won't eliminate the problem but it would at least start to limit how many of these types of weapons would be readily available to be on the street and used in these types of crimes.

John, Wicked and a few others said it best......the resources are being used entirely in the wrong way.
How the hell does a guy on a "watch list" that was already spouting off about ISIS, etc. free to walk about and do what he did?
IMO it gets to a point where profiling and possibly violating peoples rights to potentially eliminate these types of crimes from happening might be in order.
This is exactly why Trump says the shit he says.

[BigPlayReceiver]

I agree with you. I should have clarified. This guy was hell bent on destruction, regardless of how he obtained the means to carry it out. My point was that someone (like me) can favor an assault weapon ban, yet also clearly see the huge security problem that Islam apologetics has created in the Western world.

I get your point NDV...JBK's point too, but even the fanatical Palestinian stabbers are only "getting to" 3-5 Israelis per assault with some surviving.

A single vest bomb in a crowded club could have killed 50 though probably far fewer b/c < insert text about certain laws of physics >.

High-powered rifles are not THE problem, but they are certainly A problem.
The religion of the persons holding them doesn't matter.

[BigPlayReceiver]

Funny, I see the soft approach of the Obama administration when it comes to Islamic terrorism, the exact reason I need the ability to fire 60 rounds a minute to inflict maximum damage.

lol...well, this definitely brings the term "blue-on-blue" to mind.

[Ngata Da Vida]

Funny, I see the soft approach of the Obama administration when it comes to Islamic terrorism, the exact reason I need the ability to fire 60 rounds a minute to inflict maximum damage.

I figure if my Beretta is empty and a threat still exists, I am either a terrible shot, or in an impossible situation anyway.

[Ngata Da Vida]

Why is it that many are hell bent on protecting the 2nd amendment?
I'm all for people being able to legally buy firearms and protect themselves, their families and even a trained citizen being able to have a concealed carry permit that could in many cases protect and defuse a situation like what just happened potentially cutting the death toll down significantly.

With that being said.....
The 2nd amendment was written over 200 years ago.
I'm thinking back then that they didn't have in mind that it would include military assault weapons that were never even developed yet and were no more then maybe a thought in a soldiers mind that it would be nice if he could fire more rounds quicker.

The gun laws need to be looked at, and not eliminating the right to buy firearms but what type of firearms should be permitted for the general public.
You don't need an AR-15 to kill a home intruder or take down a deer while hunting in the woods.
That won't eliminate the problem but it would at least start to limit how many of these types of weapons would be readily available to be on the street and used in these types of crimes.

John, Wicked and a few others said it best......the resources are being used entirely in the wrong way.
How the hell does a guy on a "watch list" that was already spouting off about ISIS, etc. free to walk about and do what he did?
IMO it gets to a point where profiling and possibly violating peoples rights to potentially eliminate these types of crimes from happening might be in order.
This is exactly why Trump says the shit he says.

Cosign.

[BigPlayReceiver]

I figure if my Beretta is empty and a threat still exists, I am either a terrible shot, or in an impossible situation anyway.

Same here NDV...me and my 6-shot Ruger.

Sheeeeeeit, "stand-up" to an assault threat, in a public arena, with a rifle or even a small-arm weapon and you're far more likely to get dropped by LE than to neutralize the threat.

People watch too much damn TV lol.